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Let's have a mono thread

gavreid

gavreid

Pretty Words...
I'm aware that some of you run decks with mono cartridges, presumably for those old 50s and 60s records. Michael 45 rpm has got a new arm and mono cartridge for his 'oligarch' system and is beginning a new journey - as is the current fashion perhaps, for those into original pressings.

He makes an important 'discovery' that modern mono cuts that are made on stereo cutting lathes do not benefit (much/at all?) from using a mono cartridge, unlike the OGs, which benefit greatly. Not only that but the early mono cuts differ from late 50s/60s mono i.e. the mirogroove technology was changing. This might be a good place to start a discussion i.e pros and cons. Is it worth it?


 
I became aware that modern mono records were cut on stereo lathes and for that reason did not finally go for a separate turntable with a mono cartridge, but I do have one. My compromise was to get a phono stage with a mono switch. This was preceded by my liking for vintage integrated amplifiers which do have mono switches and made my mono records sound better even with a stereo cartridge. It is very surprising how much width and imagery you get on a good mono recording and probably all the better with a mono cartridge but I am happy with my compromise. Sometimes I forget, in a “rare” senior moment, to flick the mono switch but if the record is in decent clean condition I barely notice the noise that would be cancelled out. All good.
 
Years before Mark Manwaring-White fitted SUT's to my Croft phono stage with 3 controls the 2 outer balance controls & the center standby switch that Mark converted to a stereo/mono switch.

I have about 100 early mono LP's like the 1956 33CX 1140 Dennis Brain Mozart Horn Concertos 1-4, I have 3 mono version's where when switching to mono there is a noticeable improvement I also have the truly dreadful electronically reproduced stereo version, nothing improves that. With the 2016 reissue of the Beach Boys Pet Sounds in mono there is little reason to switch the Croft from stereo to mono, in my room with my system, though it still sounds good.
 
Nice to see audio technica do about 3 or 4 moving coil mono cartridges at cheap prices.
 
Big John said:
Years before Mark Manwaring-White fitted SUT's to my Croft phono stage with 3 controls the 2 outer balance controls & the center standby switch that Mark converted to a stereo/mono switch.

I have about 100 early mono LP's like the 1956 33CX 1140 Dennis Brain Mozart Horn Concertos 1-4, I have 3 mono version's where when switching to mono there is a noticeable improvement I also have the truly dreadful electronically reproduced stereo version, nothing improves that.
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Absolutely.
 
It would be interesting to know what cartridge he's using. I get the impression not all mono cartridges are created equal and some modern mono cartridges have both horizontal and vertical compliance. Some of the folks on LH swear by the old GE mono carts.

I'm also curious about groove width on original mono LPs. Is it wider? They seem capable of taking a lot more abuse - I've seen copied that look terrible that sound great on mono cartridge.
 
paulfromcamden said:
I'm also curious about groove width on original mono LPs. Is it wider? They seem capable of taking a lot more abuse - I've seen copied that look terrible that sound great on mono cartridge.
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I’ve never had a cartridge with a conical stylus but have found that replay of older mono records with a fine line stylus can be quite low noise.
 
paulfromcamden said:
It would be interesting to know what cartridge he's using. I get the impression not all mono cartridges are created equal and some modern mono cartridges have both horizontal and vertical compliance. Some of the folks on LH swear by the old GE mono carts.

I'm also curious about groove width on original mono LPs. Is it wider? They seem capable of taking a lot more abuse - I've seen copied that look terrible that sound great on mono cartridge.
Click to expand...
You need vertical compliance to ride those old warps...
 
Had a quick skip through his earlier video with the guy from Einstein Audio - it sounds like the cartridge he's using is some kind of custom job not commercially available. There's some mention of larger tip size but no details.

 
paulfromcamden said:
Had a quick skip through his earlier video with the guy from Einstein Audio - it sounds like the cartridge he's using is some kind of custom job not commercially available. There's some mention of larger tip size but no details.
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Seems that matching the compliance to the mass of the arm is pretty important...
 
gavreid said:
Not only that but the early mono cuts differ from late 50s/60s mono i.e. the mirogroove technology was changing.
Click to expand...

This is from the Miyajima mono cartridge page:

0.7mil is suitable for reissue monaural LP and a monaural LP of after 1960.
1.0mil is suitable for the monaural LP of a deep groove of the first press of the 1950s.
However, both styli can trace the monaural LP of all generations without a problem.
When you listen to the monaural LP of all generations, we recommend 0.7mil.
When you listen to a monaural LP of the first press of the 1950s mainly, we recommend 1.0mil.

 
Big John said:
Years before Mark Manwaring-White fitted SUT's to my Croft phono stage with 3 controls the 2 outer balance controls & the center standby switch that Mark converted to a stereo/mono switch.

I have about 100 early mono LP's like the 1956 33CX 1140 Dennis Brain Mozart Horn Concertos 1-4, I have 3 mono version's where when switching to mono there is a noticeable improvement I also have the truly dreadful electronically reproduced stereo version, nothing improves that. With the 2016 reissue of the Beach Boys Pet Sounds in mono there is little reason to switch the Croft from stereo to mono, in my room with my system, though it still sounds good.
Click to expand...
I forgot to say I use a Hana ML stere moving coil cartridge on a Hadcock GH242 Silver plus semi-unipivot arm on a modified Hydraulic reference turntable.
 
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Big Tabs said:
I have an Ortofon 2m Mono cartridge and a 2m 78 stylus - they are interchangeable
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With the intention of having both a mono and a stereo turntable I bought an Ortofon 2M 78 cartridge with which I could swap over the nude elliptical stylus from my 2M Blue. I thought it was a good idea but never got round to doing it.
 
Anyone tried the Grado ME+. Seems cheap as chips, unlike the Ortofon... They've moving iron I believe so less fussy about capacitance
 
I'm thinking of setting up a mono cartridge now I've dug some old mono recordings out of the attic.
Question, do mono users all use a purpose designed mono phono stage or a switchable stage to provide mono summing? If so, which one would be recommended?

I see a few do have a switch or mono inputs, Michael Fidlers Pro range for instance, and hi-enders like Thoress have separate inputs. Any other options?
 
Denon DL-102 & AT-MONO3/SP here so the 'monoing' is done at the start of the chain. I then feed this through my normal stereo NAC72 preamp.

The Denon showed me how good late 50s mono LPs can sound compared to using a stereo cartridge and mono button. The AT pulls stunning detail out of 78 grooves (if it's there in the first place!).
 
I seemed to have missed this thread before.?
I’m running two arms on my Trio L-07D turntable. An SME V running a Cadenza Bronze goes to the Stereo phono stage. It’s own arm runs my stereo Ortofon Cadenza Mono (chosen to Match the as far as possible the tonality of the Bronze goes into a Music First adjustable TX103 SUT and then to a MM phono stage.
I deliberately chose a cartridge with some compliance as although I have a few mono records pre the making of stereo cutting heads the majority of mine are post, plus high quality mono reissues like Music Matters and BN Classics. It seems pretty certain that no verticle compliance cartriges will damage these records.
My ears tell me that stereo cutting head cut mono records played with a mono cartrige are much better. More depth and layering to the soundstage and basically more ‘real sounding’. True non VC cartridges may be even better? But I avoided them for the reason given. My phono stage / preamp does not have a mono stage unfortunatel, but I think this might offer a small further imimprovement.
I think I like the Thoress, but out of my price range.
The new Master Fidelity Phono stage while still expensive looks interesting:
Before using a mono cartridge I was using Denon 103D for mono and this punches well above its price range and sounds very good. The Denon 102 mono may be even better?
 
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