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Leica M8 or Fuji X pro1?

BenS

BenS

pfm Member
Hello,

I am thinking about changing from my EP-1. I don't really enjoy the images it makes and I really don't like not having an optical viewfinder.

The M8 is now available secondhand for just over a £1000 making it on a par with the Fujifilm price-wise. I also really like the idea of being able to use manual focus lenses with an effective manual focussing system. I have heard that manual focus on the x-pro1 is not ideal. Also, and this is a bit shallow perhaps, but the Leica is such a beautiful object.

However, I would expect the image quality and lack of noise to be superior with the fujifilm.

Does anyone have experience with either or both cameras. I know that there are some Xpro1 users on here.

Thanks,
Ben
 
Cliff will be along in a mo. He dumped his M8 for an M9, and the M9 for a Fuji X-pro1, so he's probably got an opinion ;-)
 
I've got lots of good and interesting film cameras: rolleiflex, om1, a panoramic medium format camera, a 5-8 field camera etc. But I just never use them these days. I keep thinking that I will dust off the rollei but I know I won't get round to processing the film for months. So digital it must be.

I don't really like slr very much. I've had a d2x and a 5d and neither floated my boat. Too large, too heavy and too intrusive. Compacts like the canon g series aren't enough better than an iPhone to be worth bothering with IMHO.
 
Ben,

The M8's sensor wasn't the best even in its day so I'd be inclined to go the Fuji route, especially since the X-Pro1 will take Leica glass.

The only caveat is that it won't be a proper rangefinder, even though it looks like one.

Joe
 
I think you're right Joe, I need to resist the beautifulness of the leica and go with the better camera - or at least the camera that produces the better images.

Mousey,
That offer is very, very tempting!
 
Ben,

Is a used M9 a bit too dear? It's a beautiful camera and it has a competent full-frame sensor.

Joe
 
I think it is Joe - though I expect if I wait another year or two the s/h prices may drop to a level I could justify to myself.
 
I really liked the M8. The image quality is excellent. Don't forget that the UV/IR filters are essential if you want to avoid colour casts on synthetic fabrics. Also, wide angle lenses (35mm and below) need to be coded.
 
The M8 is a great camera. The sensor is excellent and was developed to give the look of film - I believe it is the same sensor as used in the R9 DMR. I sold my M8 just over a year ago to buy an M9. Didn't really notice much improvement in image quality (if any) except my 35mm lens was now 35mm and not 50mm as it was on the M8 allowing for the 1.4 crop factor. Don't forget buying into Leica will give you access to some of the very best glass in the world and it is this that will improve performance and image quality much much more than the camera ever will. The latest lenses (in particular the Summilux models) are also excellent and suit the digital format well. However some do say that the early Leica glass gives a certain look that is classic Leica.

I also bought a Fuji X100 last year (£1100) but sold it after 3 months as I though it wasn't very good at all. Too many problems and design issues that should have been sorted prior to production. Focusing was also poor and not that reliable. Don't get me wrong, I am a Fuji fan and have owned a number of their cameras over the years. Note new Fuji X100s go today for about £600, half of what they were a year ago. The other thing to bear in mind is Leica products (mainly lenses) hold their value like no other make so although the initial investment is high depreciation will be very low.
 
Having moved to an M8 and then M9 from other more complex cameras I simply love it, the image quality is stunning and the sensor being a CCD has a look that is different to CMOS.

There is nothing you can't do with an M between 18 and 90mm longer lenses are not ideal, just get closer !

I have many shots at 1/8, 1/15 band held no problem and the noise is far more filmic than other cameras. Then there is the lenses.... Some if the older glass is to die for and you won't lose a penny trying

I'd happily go back to an M8 with a 28 if I had to. The only difference is a little colour density/saturation, about 1 stop ISO and more pixels. The sensor is essentially the same but extended across the full frame.

Manual focus and zone focussing becomes second nature and I personally think it has improved my photography as I am active not passive, you have to think a little more which is a good thing IM0
 
I agree with you about manual focus - I think that auto-focus has made me lazy and complacent. I want to have a more active role in the picture taking process. I enjoyed the older OM lenses on the om1 - BUT - it is such an unwieldy system for getting the focus right. The sensor on the OM1 is quite noisy, but in a way that I find very ugly.
 
Best of both worlds, get an X-pro 1 and add third party Leica red spot decals as and where needed.
 
Cesare said:
Cliff will be along in a mo. He dumped his M8 for an M9, and the M9 for a Fuji X-pro1, so he's probably got an opinion ;-)
Click to expand...

That was an easy choice - the M9 is full frame and the M8 is a 1.3 crop
I sold the M9 when I ran out of money to pay a tax bill

the X-Pro1 is not an M9
 
Ben,

The most important bit is the glass. Leica lenses have a reputation for being expensive, but there’s a good reason for that. By and large for a given vintage, Leica make probably the very best lenses that mere mortals can buy to use on a 35mm camera (or its modern day equivalent). Sure, Zeiss, Fuji and others also make very good lenses, which can match the older Leica lenses in performance. But the newest Leica lenses are truly astonishing (both in quality and price).

You can’t judge how good a lens or camera is by looking at a jpeg on a computer monitor. If that’s all you want, then don’t bother spending too much money. However if you print big, then you’ll start to notice. But the most important thing is the eye behind the lens. Cartier-Bresson’s lenses were nowhere as good as even the 1970s lenses. Some of his pictures would not get past a so called judge at a camera club competition. But they are timeless and captured at the perfect moment.

If you’re a keen photographer and you want to slow down and craft your pictures, then buy the Leica and expect to spend a lot more on lenses in years to come. If you really want to craft your pictures, then buy an older film Leica, shoot some B&W film, learn to process it yourself and produce real works of art.
There is nothing like a top quality hand printed silver image on fibre paper. But that’s a completely different story.

Charlie
 
cliffpatte said:
you can always use Leica glass on the X-Pro1 by the way
Click to expand...

Does the focus indicator still work with lenses that aren't electrically coupled? I've tried my Leica lenses with a Panasonic micro 4/3 camera and found it to be a painfully slow way to work - because there was no AF indicator on that camera, and the EVF wasn't much use unless you hit the magnification button to see what was in focus more clearly.

Also, it's probable that the corner image quality will suffer - unless the Fuji has similar microlenses as the Leicas. Certainly with the Panasonic quality falls off if you use anything wider than a 35mm - which on the Panasonic has the same angle of view as a 70mm lens on a full frame camera.

The other week I met a professional photographer I know who uses the Fuji and he was very, very pleased with it - and the lenses. It's a nice camera, and I found it a lot lighter than my M8.

Personally I'd wait a few months and see what happens to used M9 prices once the new Leica hits the shops. I expect there'll be quite a few M9s coming onto the used market, and that may lead to a lowering of prices.
 
Stunsworth said:
Does the focus indicator still work with lenses that aren't electrically coupled? I've tried my Leica lenses with a Panasonic micro 4/3 camera and found it to be a painfully slow way to work - because there was no AF indicator on that camera, and the EVF wasn't much use unless you hit the magnification button to see what was in focus more clearly.

Also, it's probable that the corner image quality will suffer - unless the Fuji has similar microlenses as the Leicas. Certainly with the Panasonic quality falls off if you use anything wider than a 35mm - which on the Panasonic has the same angle of view as a 70mm lens on a full frame camera.
Click to expand...

You can easily hit spot on focus using the EVF mode and the zoom function. I wouldn't worry about the sensor in terms of corner image quality given that it is a crop sensor, making the 35mm lens more like a 52mm
 
cliffpatte said:
You can easily hit spot on focus using the EVF mode and the zoom function
Click to expand...

As I say, that's what I did with the Panasonic. But whether it was the resolution of the viewfinder, or - more likely - just me, I didn't find it a satisfactory way of working and soon abandoned it.

In terms of corner image performance, the problem would lie with the sensor, not the lenses. The micro lenses on the M8 and M9 compensate for the closeness of the rear of the lens optics to the sensor, and the problem that causes with the light hitting the sensor at an oblique angle. Apologies if grannies and egg sucking applies.
 
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