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Leben or Prima Luna - any views?

I’ve had a Prima Luna Dialogue Premium for several years now and it continues to impress. Upgraded to KT150s and never looked back. I’ve a friend that has the Leben and it’s also lovely, perhaps more laid back and softer than the PL but a captivating listen.
 
I had a PL prologue 2. Really enjoyed it. Used with ProAc 140 mk2 speakers. Responded well to valve changes, and liked the fact you could choose KT88s or EL34s. Quite clear and punchy for a valve amp but not in your face, still relaxing.
 
I've now picked up a 300f from John at Midland Audio Exchange and am very impressed. With the Devores it has an opened that leaves previous kit I've owned behind.

John did demo them with some rather excellent cables the would cost more than the amp and, apart from NACA 5, I've only got some bottom of the range Chord I picked up 20 years ago. There was certainly a greater presence and detail in the demo room ( using 2 different Spendors, First the new D7s then the A6's) so some cable swapping mgt be called for next.

The 300f uses some GE JAN-6197 which are apparent not that often used in hi fi, than the EL84s. Not having done an a/b I've no idea what the difference is but it sounds pretty good so I might not go down that particular rabbit hole ... at this point ... but they are a lot cheaper so picking up some NOS to try might be tempting.
 
kjb said:
I've now picked up a 300f from John at Midland Audio Exchange and am very impressed. With the Devores it has an opened that leaves previous kit I've owned behind.

John did demo them with some rather excellent cables the would cost more than the amp and, apart from NACA 5, I've only got some bottom of the range Chord I picked up 20 years ago. .
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The Leben 300 is an excellent amp on the right speakers.
When I had one I used various cables amo Atlas, Chord & Talk, nothing more expensive than Atlas Hyper which was superb.
For some reason A5 never worked well on valves here.
 
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Worth pointing out that if we are talking Prologue vs. 300 they are entirely different things. The Prima Luna is a pretty punchy powerful 35 Watt amp that can drive most things, the Leben is a modern take on something like a Leak Stereo 20, i.e. just a pair of EL84s a channel so about 10 Watts a side. As such speaker efficiency and load will likely make the choice to a large degree as the Leben is unsuited to many roles.

Both are very good amps IMO, I’ve owned and enjoyed a Prologue 2 and if I didn’t already have a really nice Stereo 20 I’d be very interested in owning the Leben as I’ve heard them sound great and I love the looks and build quality. Just choose the speakers wisely as a pair of EL84s will never be a powerhouse. I’d see the Leben as a good option for big Tannoys, Lowthers, Klipsch, larger Audio Note, DeVore etc etc, or LS3/5As in the extreme near-field, probably Quad 57s too, but it just won’t be right for a lot of low-impedance modern ported stand-mounts or slim floor-standers.
 
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Tony L said:
I’d see the Leben as a good option for big Tannoys, Lowthers, Klipsch, larger Audio Note, DeVore etc etc, or LS3/5As in the extreme near-field, probably Quad 57s too, but it just won’t be right for a lot of low-impedance modern ported stand-mounts or slim floor-standers.
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I'm running them through the Devore Super 8s which I've now bought. The newer 300f runs a different valve - the GE JAN 6197 which was originally designed for computers, apparently. John was saying that they looked for an alternative to the 84s as Leben found they were getting too expensive and harder to source. Same set up, though, a pair of the 6197s valves giving 2x 15w. I've not seen any other amps using this valve yet an it is very clear - which has lower the cost of the amp by £500.

As I said above, I've not done a come-on but am very happy with how it wounds.

There's a quite hard to follow ( and seemingly contradictory) comparative review here:

http://www.highfidelity.pl/@main-377&lang=en

which reads like its been through a few different translations en route to me.

Once I've sorted the speaker cables I'm thinking of getting some AKG 701's as every review of any iteration of the 300 seems to find the headphone output rather special.

Kevin
 
Interesting, I didn’t realise they had updated the Leben for different tubes. I find that surprising as EL84s are in current production and Soviet era NOS fairly plentiful and superb. Far easier to find really good EL84s than say EL34s IMHO.
 
Tony L said:
Interesting, I didn’t realise they had updated the Leben for different tubes. I find that surprising as EL84s are in current production and Soviet era NOS fairly plentiful and superb. Far easier to find really good EL84s than say EL34s IMHO.
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The 300 has already been through several incarnations, always driven by supply – or lack of - a particular valve. I had a 300x a few years back, which had a mild degree of tweaking by Definitive, a lovely thing which I only reluctantly moved on when I switched speakers and needed more juice.

Never done a direct comparison with PL, although I do remember sitting in on a mate's demo when the dealer used a PL claiming it was very similar to the Sugden a21 which had been requested.

No it bloody wasn't. Leben for me every time.
 
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If using headphones make sure you don’t use high impedence types like Sennheiser. Leben have changed the headphone output power and impedance during production. I had the HD800 and there was a noticeable hum. Audeze LCD-3 were dead silent though, and a superb match. I’m using the Sony flagship Z1R right now and again it’s a great match.
 
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Nagraboy said:
If using headphones make sure you don’t use high impedence types
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Thanks for the advice. I'm sadly not quite in that ball park, price wise. As I said above I'm thinking more of K701/2 or D990 (premium) price wise, which are both quite low impedance. I prefer listening though speakers so these will, at least to start, but for occasional use only.

Kevin
 
kjb said:
Thanks for the advice. I'm sadly not quite in that ball park, price wise. As I said above I'm thinking more of K701/2 or D990 (premium) price wise, which are both quite low impedance. I prefer listening though speakers so these will, at least to start, but for occasional use only.

Kevin
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I used the Audeze LCD3/Leben with the Chord Hugo as the DAC in the system. The Hugo’s cross-feed feature still works when used into an amp and sounds really good on some music.
 
K701/702 is one of the best headphone vfm I had
No idea if Leben 300 can handle them, they need a beefy amp.

Another great vfm headphone is Beyer DT150,250 or AKG 550 if you want closed type

I sold my Sennheiser 600/650 preferred above
 
Well, I've now had a full weekend to listen to the Leben/Devore combo and think it is really all I could want within my current budget - or going quite a bit higher.

I've spent the weekend playing cd after cd and record after record site astonished at how different they sound by comparison with my previous amps and speakers. Instruments are clearer and have much more character and presence, drums are so much more detailed and rhythms crisper, bass is rich, clear and controlled, voices now sit in a recorded space and have distinctive character. It's pretty much all I've been wanting. And, as a bonus, both the speakers and the amp are beautiful things aesthetically.

I have reached a point of stasis and calm where I can just go back to listening to music again.

My only remaining wondering is the speaker cables. They sound fine with two x 5m 20 year old lengths of Chord Rumour II that I had in a cupboard and haven't used for over 15 years. Having bought the amp and speakers my budget is getting tighter but, having heard what the amp can do at Midlands Audio Exchange with £350/m cable I feel it is worth looking at some different options. I need 2 x 4m as a result of how the room is set up. Any suggestions? I've not looked at cable since I bought my NACA 5 18 years ago and TBH am not sure where to begin.

Kevin
 
kjb said:
My only remaining wondering is the speaker cables. They sound fine with two x 5m 20 year old lengths of Chord Rumour II that I had in a cupboard and haven't used for over 15 years. Having bought the amp and speakers my budget is getting tighter but, having heard what the amp can do at Midlands Audio Exchange with £350/m cable I feel it is worth looking at some different options. I need 2 x 4m as a result of how the room is set up. Any suggestions? I've not looked at cable since I bought my NACA 5 18 years ago and TBH am not sure where to begin.

Kevin
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Which interconnects are you using?
 
PerF said:
£350/m
You must be joking
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Are you saying you’re not aware of any cable costing this much? I’ve seen some advertised for over £12000 per mono metre, unterminated.

I don’t think the op was suggesting paying that much, just that he’d like something that performs the way that cable did.

Kevin
 
kevinrt said:
Are you saying you’re not aware of any cable costing this much? I’ve seen some advertised for over £12000 per mono metre, unterminated.

I don’t think the op was suggesting paying that much, just that he’d like something that performs the way that cable did.

Kevin
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Exactly - if was within budget I'd have bought them - or the s/h length currently in the classifieds. I've seen plenty more expensive and these were impressive.

notevenclose said:
Which interconnects are you using?
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I've got Rega Couple running from my Saturn CDP to the amp and Van Den Hull D300 Mk III Hybrid from the Dynavector phono stage.

Kevin
 
Sorry it makes no sence to me

£350/m cable is insane no matter if its mono or stereo and in what setup.

People seem to pay premium for cables these days paying little or no attention to mains, racks, stacking boxes or other optimations

Maybe I'm just an old grumpy but any speakerwire should never cost that kind of money, imagine the profit involved !

It may have sounded great in the store dealer demo but other factors might have been a part of this.

A home-demo is the only way before decision of this kind of money IMO.

Maybe compare to any more reasonable priced cables.

The old Chord cable should be fine with a new termination.

The involved interconnects has long influenced the final result before signal arrive loudspeakers.
 
kjb said:
Exactly - if was within budget I'd have bought them - or the s/h length currently in the classifieds. I've seen plenty more expensive and these were impressive.

I've got Rega Couple running from my Saturn CDP to the amp and Van Den Hull D300 Mk III Hybrid from the Dynavector phono stage.

Kevin
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Hmm. Okay. Not familiar with either, so obviously my advice will be indispensable! ;-)

I'm sure John at MAX will keep you right and let you try out something a bit less spendy.

FWIW, I've long subscribed to the single brand cabling (or near as dammit) approach, mix & match is of course perfectly possible but much less predictable.

For speaker cable only, Hitachi SSX102 is a good choice, although it tends to be pretty rare these days. I used that as a 'short-term' stopgap with a Leben 300x and Living Voice OBX-RWs and was delighted with it – 'short-term' lasted 2 years. Rest of the cabling (power & interconnects) was my usual Kondo.

As a 'left-field option,' I'd look at cables made from Duelund's modern-day take on vintage Western Electric wires. I used DCA16GA for a while in the system and was amazed at how good it was (again in combination with Kondo). Just out of curiosity I bought an interconnect I have no need for to see if the trick could be repeated. Yup. Just stupidly good for around 50 quid.

Supplier in the UK is HiFi Collective. https://www.hificollective.co.uk/wi...istrand-copper-wire-cotton-oil-insulated.html

I used mine just loosely twisted, unterminated. Interconnect just uses the basic Switchcraft plugs since it was only really for a spare. HiFi Collective will sell you a kit of parts with optional connectors or ready made cables assembled to order. I have the 16GA i/c, but I think a lot of users prefer the newer 20GA for interconnect duties.

https://www.hificollective.co.uk/cable-kits/glasshouse-interconnect-cable-kit-no-10.html

https://www.hificollective.co.uk/cable-kits/glasshouse-interconnect-cable-kit-no-11.html

Jeff Day has a lot of articles about screening for use with phono stages etc, links from the HFC pages above.
 
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