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Leak Stereo 20

That is indeed nuts, I've seen them go for a lot less than that. I'd hope to get a decent quad for £150 or so, though I may be out of touch. The thing with Mullard etc is they tended to make tubes for others, so it's a matter of identifying some lesser brands made from the same tooling.
 
Tony L said:
That is indeed nuts, I've seen them go for a lot less than that. I'd hope to get a decent quad for £150 or so, though I may be out of touch. The thing with Mullard etc is they tended to make tubes for others, so it's a matter of identifying some lesser brands made from the same tooling.
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Yes, for instance a lot of later Cossor valves were actually Mullard.
 
Tony,

Now that you've had the Stereo 20 for a while, do you think its low power output is a problem with your Tannoys?

When I was looking for a suitable valve amp for my GRFs you steered me away from lower-powered amps like the Leben CS-300, as you thought its 12 watts (or 15 watts in the fancy version) would be inadequate. It was just as well at the time, as I got a shiny new Stingray for less than half the price of the Leben and I was pretty much cleaned out by the Tannoy purchase.

Anyway, not that I'm unhappy with the Stingray, but the Leben is an amp I'd like to try sometime before I die. (The other amps are the Berning 270 and the EL84-based Shindo.)

Joe
 
Tony,

I have Golden dragons in mine but have the Mullards that i got with my s20
4x el84
1x e180cc
2x jc5751
3x ecc83
I would be happy to post up to you for a month to try-am knee deep in DIY at the mo! As I said i did not notice much difference but not an extended listening period by any means.

Si
 
Theres folk on world designs forum who regularily sell valves - Im buying some at present myself. prices are fair given there is a guarentee with mine
 
Joe P said:
Now that you've had the Stereo 20 for a while, do you think its low power output is a problem with your Tannoys?

When I was looking for a suitable valve amp for my GRFs you steered me away from lower-powered amps like the Leben CS-300 as you thought its 12 watts (or 15 watts in the fancy version) would be inadequate.
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I'm not noticing any issue at all with power. I can't explain this, as previously when I've tried low power into my Tannoys, e.g. a very nice pair of Coincident 300B SET monoblocks, I've felt they were gutless and couldn't hold the bass together compared to the PL2 (though they sang beautifully into the Heresys, I really liked them). The Leak has no such issues. As ever I don't really have enough information from which to form an opinion - the problem with threads like this is people often read them under the assumption the writer is some kind of expert on the subject, though much of the time they are just someone documenting their own explorations and personal discovery - all my threads should certainly be viewed in such a light, the more I learn about audio the less I realise I know.

What was in the little Anthem tube amp you had for a while? IIRC that was EL84s wasn't it? I suspect there are other factors too, e.e. quality of output transformers etc, which are allegedly very good in the Leaks.

I did a few readings using Faber Acoustical's Soundmeter on my iPhone just top make sure I was listening around the same level I did with the PL2, and I was getting an average level of around 75db with the occasional peak at 93db measured at the listening seat. i.e. I'm barely using a watt here. Ash is right as to how high peaks are at a quietish listening level, though with the type of speakers we both use a watt or two obviously goes a very long way.

I can't explain why some similarly powered amps sound so different though, perhaps someone else can? I've flung some serious bass abuse at the Leak, e.g. Trentemøller, Massive Attack, We Want Miles etc and it seems nicely grippy and punchy to me. It gives nothing up to the PL2, though I've not tried cranking it up louder than I'd ever want to listen. Never did that with the PL2 either.

PS Si, very kind offer, thank you very much, though I'd hate to risk frying someone else's tubes - I'll wait until some come up with my name on.
 
Tony,

I wonder if the issue with the SET you tried was the mode of operation -- i.e., that it's a SET instead of a push-pull amp.

Not that I'm any expert on this, but my feeling is that a good push-pull is more lively and fun, while a SET is more about midrange magic at the expense of bass grip. (I can kinda do a push-pull vs SET experiment with the Stingray, as it has a switch that lets me choose between ethereal triode and funky ultralinear output mode.)

The Anthem was a 25-watt-per-chanel EL-84 amp. To be honest, it was a decent amp for the money (~$1300 Cdn new, ~$450 secondhand) but I suspect its output transformers let it down, as it's ultimately a budget valve amp. It never had the grip I was used to with the NAP 250 or with the Stingray, though it was pretty good on the 4-Ohm tap (into 15-Ohm speakers!).

I don't regret buying the Stingray and it's all I could have afforded at the time anyway, but all the talk of Lebens and Bernings and Shindos back then got me intrigued about those amps. You can add Leak to that list now.

Joe
 
Kt77 said:
Hi TonyL, I just wanted to add that's a Beautiful looking amp you've there. We in the USA can only wish we had access to what I'd call the better sounding tube ( valve ) gear from the Golden Era. As many here for whatever reason - feel McIntrash is the bees knee. You guys are very fortunate to reside in a country that has produced some of the very best sounding components in the entire World. While some countries have merely lost there way and are more concerned about power and size. To my mind keeping a system as simple as possible assures if nothing else a cleaner path as well as a greater sense of obtaining Musicality. Great find indeed. Regards, Oscar
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Dude - talk to Jim McShane about a re-built Citation amp - those kick serious butt - and pair it with a nice set of Altec 604s. In a nice cab, I will put my 604s up against a Tannoy any day, especially with more modern music that has a heavier demand on bass duties.
 
Joe P said:
Tony,

I wonder if the issue with the SET you tried was the mode of operation -- i.e., that it's a SET instead of a push-pull amp.

Not that I'm any expert on this, but my feeling is that a good push-pull is more lively and fun, while a SET is more about midrange magic at the expense of bass grip. (I can kinda do a push-pull vs SET experiment with the Stingray, as it has a switch that lets me choose between ethereal triode and funky ultralinear output mode.)

Joe
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I would agree with you, Joe, it is the difference between PP and SET.

I have used 300B amps, many different SET amps, a nice stock Stereo 20 and a direct-coupled DIY ECC85/EL84, and parallel PP KT88 monoblocs - all with my 604s.

All of the PP amps demonstrated superior bass grip - and the 604s are 98db effecient, and have better bass control naturally than the Tannoys do.

Even a parallel single ended 300B at 20W was way woollier in the bass than the Stereo 20 was.
 
Mr. Gort,

What's your fave EL84-based amp? I've tried only two, so all I can say is that a Manley Stingray is better than an Anthem Model 1.

Joe
 
I too, have only ever tried two. The Stereo 20 and this amp:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/72536-el84-amp-baby-huey-64.html

which started as Baby Huey amp, but when I listened to it it had morphed to a DC Wim de Haan amp--no caps in the signal line and output is ~10w clean.

Neither one are my favourites, as I dont really care for a PP EL84 in my setup. Most of my listening is currently with a 2A3 or a SE KT88. I do really like a good 45 amp. I am very interested in a F2a or GM70 amp...but those green ones are very pricey :)
 
Tony - dont mean to hijack your thread. That is a mighty fine amp you have scored, and I am sure your setup sounds superb. As always, it is an impeccable addition - well done!
 
Been doing some of that learning stuff....

I don't think my Dynavector P100 likes my cute little passive preamp. Up until now I've really only been playing CDs through the Leak, and they sound great. I spun some vinyl earlier and it sounded pretty disappointing, quite hard to describe how, but kind of gutless and maybe sucked-out here and there. Just wrong. To make sure I wasn't imagining things I dug out my Classic Records audiophile cut of Brubeck's Time Out, which is a fine sounding album by any standards, and one that usually hoofs the CD out of the room. Ooops, now the CD is better. A lot better. Hmmm. I started off fiddling about with interconnects figuring the stupid audiophool Spectral thing with it's boxes was probably stuffing things up in a passive context, but no, wasn't that - I tried both a DIY Klotz (very low impedance) and some Gotham. Preferred the Spectral (ok, please kill me!).

Whilst doing all this I figured out that the slight hum I mentioned earlier is steady-state, i.e. it does not increase or decrease when altering the volume position on the PAS-02. Interesting, must be an earth loop then. Time for some further diagnosis: first unhooking the 301 from the mains, then unhooking the SME M2's earth wire from the phono stage. Hum still there. Ok, I'm getting distracted here as the hum wasn't the issue, I can live with that, it's the lifeless sound that needs fixing. So, lets rule out the P100... I'll steal the TD-124s little Cambridge 640 phono stage.... This is weird. Not only does this completely cure the hum (it has a shitty wall wart and no proper earthing), but it also sounds a fair bit better than the P100. Now I've done this comparison several times before, and the Cambridge, whilst great for twice the cash, is usually several steps behind - the Dynavector is a great sounding phono stage. So, what is going on here? Is this some kind of impedance mismatch thing?

If it comes to the crunch I don't mind swapping the P100 out if that's what's needed. Maybe even think about one of the Croft preamps that have a phono stage and can be spec'd for a Leak Stereo 20. It would mean moving to an MM cart unless I bought some step up transformers, but I kind of fancy trying that for a while, so that wouldn't be an issue. Lots to think about, though I'd best sell the PL2 first to get some cash to play with!
 
Tony - re the vinyl sound, is it possible to try an active pre and see how that sounds?

I've noticed a similar CD superiority when running my Tsakaridis Devices Apollo Mono blocks with Densen Beat acting as passive pre - to the point that I have been listening too and enjoying rather a lot of CDs of late.
 
Lovely looking amp Tony. I feel a trip on a train coming on.... :)

last time I heard a Stereo 20 was at Dev's a few years ago driving his Tannoy SRM10s and a few of us thought that combo was easily the best on the day.

EL84s are great and with the Leak giving 10w from a pair its running them nice and easy.

Re the phono stage, you could always try my tricked-out WAD phono II complete with Mullard 83s and Sowter step ups.
Not that there is much WAD left inside!

Joe P said:
When I was looking for a suitable valve amp for my GRFs you steered me away from lower-powered amps like the Leben CS-300, as you thought its 12 watts (or 15 watts in the fancy version) would be inadequate. It was just as well at the time, as I got a shiny new Stingray for less than half the price of the Leben and I was pretty much cleaned out by the Tannoy purchase.
Click to expand...

I think that has more to do with transformer quality that absolute power capability.
A good transformer containing lots of iron running well within limits is going to outperform something that is pushed hard. The Leak is a technically well specified valve amp - nice and clean.
 
Nice catch you've got their Tony!

Here's my tuppence worth.... A correctly functioning Stereo 20 should have no audible hum or hiss apart from, if it's an unmodified one, then you will get a very noticeable mains hum that fades in and then out as it warms up...They all do that mate ;) Mine is totally silent into my KEF Reference 105.3-4's which are 93dBW. You may well have an earth loop going on there.
I've found the brand of valves to make very little difference to the sound (if anything the input ECC83 makes the biggest difference but still minor) so I wouldn't waste your money on NOS Mullard's if I was you.

It's definitely a real classic... It's my favourite Leak for sure and personally I prefer them to the Quad II.

I've done all sort's of mods to mine that make it sound much more modern, but nothing that I can't reverse to bring it back to standard if I need to.
The matching Varislope pre is a real looker if you get one that hasn't got a faded front panel from exposure to sunlight.... I completely rebuilt mine with modern components (kept the design pretty standard though) and it made one hell of an improvement! It's still the weaker component of the two and can be easily beaten by modern stuff, but it at least sounds very acceptable now. I usually use mine with a passive pre though....
 
Tony, the Stereo 20 looks great and i bet it sounds good too. I just had to write as my set up is quite similar - with a Garrard 301 front end. I obtained a grey Stereo 20 a couple of years ago (which Paul Greenfield of Classique Sounds brought up to spec). I started with a passive pre - an Icon Audio, but found it was lacking sparkle , top end, presence etc so i connected it up to a Naim 32.5 active preamp (with its matching HiCap power supply). Yes, the high sensitivity of the Stereo 20 does mean that full power is achieved at quite low settings of the volume control, but the sound has been deeply satisfying. Speakers are big old Heybrook HB3's from the early 80's. I have been advised that a good passive is the usual route with a Stereo 20 but i love what this active preamp is doing to it too much to change.

With regard to hum, I found that if the preamp was close to the Stereo 20 there would be hum issues... so i relocated my simple set up on to a long bench type support so that the Stereo 20, the HiCap power supply and the Naim 32.5 preamp were laid out in a long line with 12 inches or so between each (the Garrard above on a Quadraspire wall shelf). There's no hum at all now.

Winch.
 
Tony,

I tried my Dynavector L200 with a P75 mk2 and it did not like that either-been looking at the Crofts and the phono stages are evidently very good and also Nick Gorham's phono stages are too in this context. I spoke to Glenn and he seems to dislike mc's and is one of the most down to earth fellows i have spoken too regarding this-good prices for the pres also as i am sure you are aware....I am swaying toward the croft but need to save a few pennies (£400).

Am painting precise Matisse replicas on the internal doors of a Regency house at the mo (Charleston house style) so hoping the linseed dries sooner than later!....will put some pics up somewhere around these halls as they may be of interest.
 
Croft pre's have always worked well with Leak power-amps. I was using a Micro R with a Stereo 20 yesterday and it sounded pretty good to me.
 
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