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Labour Leader: Keir Starmer VII

If there is 0 to vote for, "don't vote for any of em.

Would not that cause a bit of a stir up there in the lofty echalones if there was a wide spread national vote strike?
 
Darmok said:
If there is 0 to vote for, "don't vote for any of em.

Would not that cause a bit of a stir up there in the lofty echalones if there was a wide spread national vote strike?
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Still worth going to the polling station, if only to write NOTA across the ballot paper and have it counted. National Spoilt Paper day?
 
ks.234 said:
Still worth going to the polling station, if only to write NOTA across the ballot paper and have it counted. National Spoilt Paper day?
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I am sure NOTA would be in the majority.

I think a TV docu should be broadcast, to warn ALL the parties in advance of what is about to happen election time. :D

I do hope I live long enough to see the back of all these political shenanigan from all sides, one foot in my grave atm here. :(
 
paulfromcamden said:
And I guess all of this comes down to how serious you believe the climate crisis to be.

Whether you think we've got a few decades to slowly ease off the gas of whether you think there's a good chance we're already ****ed.
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The reaiity itself isn't a matter of opinion. The science is quite clear that the effects will be VERY bad. And we have left it too late now to dodge this entirely. Matter of how soon and how seriously we MAY change to be willing/able to have some ability to make the results 'less awful'. We have now run out of time to dither and pretend otherwise.

e.g. At some point we see the entire weather pattern of the oceans and air above them change due to the loss of the ice in North Polar regions. That could cause major shifts in climate for Europe - and the UK in particular. Having a major effect on rainfall, intensity and frequency of damaging storms, etc. Changes that impact things like flooding to our ability to grow food in the UK. As is does similar things elsewhere and millions of people may starve or migrate from tropical or subtropical areas which become impossible to survive in due to heat, floods, loss of ability to farm, etc.

If the permafrost, etc, melt in Canada, Russia, etc, that may cause a lot of trapped methane to be released. Making the planet even hotter, and th weather patterns even more severe. Methane is a worse 'greenhouse gas' than CO2. Basically, the Earth's climate system will become very different. And in ways that will have massive damaging impacts on human survival.

We have essentially no time left now to delay. That simple.
 
Darmok said:
If there is 0 to vote for, "don't vote for any of em.

Would not that cause a bit of a stir up there in the lofty echalones if there was a wide spread national vote strike?
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Nope. Given that Tories and Labour are a pushmepullyou they just bank the result.

If you want change of the kinds we need, and live in England - vote Green. If you are in Scotland you have the SNP as an alternative if you'd prefer that. No idea about PC in Wales. Frankly, as soon as you take Climate Chance into accound, voting for the Tories or Labour is like voting to cause many people to have ruined lives... or die. Neither show any sign of facing up to reality.
 
Darmok said:
... And, the majority of NOTA voters would take to the streets, I'd love to see that happen, ;)
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Problem being that it wouldn't solve the problems and would just give the usual parties someone to use and blame as a distraction tactic to deter anyone else from daring to vote for what we need. The press love this as it lets their wealthy non-dom owners to maintain their control and wealth extraction.
 
Jim Audiomisc said:
The reaiity itself isn't a matter of opinion. The science is quite clear that the effects will be VERY bad. And we have left it too late now to dodge this entirely. Matter of how soon and how seriously we MAY change to be willing/able to have some ability to make the results 'less awful'. We have now run out of time to dither and pretend otherwise.

e.g. At some point we see the entire weather pattern of the oceans and air above them change due to the loss of the ice in North Polar regions. That could cause major shifts in climate for Europe - and the UK in particular. Having a major effect on rainfall, intensity and frequency of damaging storms, etc. Changes that impact things like flooding to our ability to grow food in the UK. As is does similar things elsewhere and millions of people may starve or migrate from tropical or subtropical areas which become impossible to survive in due to heat, floods, loss of ability to farm, etc.

If the permafrost, etc, melt in Canada, Russia, etc, that may cause a lot of trapped methane to be released. Making the planet even hotter, and th weather patterns even more severe. Methane is a worse 'greenhouse gas' than CO2. Basically, the Earth's climate system will become very different. And in ways that will have massive damaging impacts on human survival.

We have essentially no time left now to delay. That simple.
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Yes I agree with you 100% Jim.

My point was exactly that. You can only really support Labour's 'gently gently' approach to the climate crisis if you genuinely think we've got all the time in the world.
 
Jim Audiomisc said:
That doesn't seem much of a "hope" to me TBH. In essence, more of the same with red lipstick. The problem is that putting lipstick on a pig doesn't mean it is no longer a pig. What matters is real policies, not the lipstick. On that Staremore's party fails. Just Tory with lipstick... as things get worse.

The only way to change this is to show a bigger vote for the Greens. (or to some extent SNP in Scotland) as a rise in that vote will at least fire a shot over the bows of the next government. Shows people are NOT happy with either of the big parties, but end up voting for them out of desperation.

The more people vote for one of the two 'big parties' because they feel anything else is pointless, the more they lock in that view in the minds of others who would also like real changes. Voting Labour at present may be 'slightly less bad' than Tory. But it shows every sign of not dealing with the basic changes we need, because they spout the usual twaddle.
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We get the governments we deserve though. Again, this is about what the majority of voters want. They rejected Corbyn (who I think ticks a lot/some of your boxes) but elected his mate. That is reality. You may not like it, of course, which is fair enough and you can vote Green in the next election but it won't change much if anything. Maybe a referendum on climate might bring the change you seek. Many on the Right are promoting that idea. The last referendum certainly changed a few things. Your thoughts on a climate referendum?

In the meantime, some red meat for the comrades to chew on and spit out - Progressive realism!:

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...y-realistic-not-nostalgic-progressive-realism
 
Kirk said:
We get the governments we deserve though. Again, this is about what the majority of voters want. They rejected Corbyn (who I think ticks a lot/some of your boxes) but elected his mate. That is reality. You may not like it, of course, which is fair enough and you can vote Green in the next election but it won't change much if anything. Maybe a referendum on climate might bring the change you seek. Many on the Right are promoting that idea. The last referendum certainly changed a few things. Your thoughts on a climate referendum?

In the meantime, some red meat for the comrades to chew on and spit out - Progressive realism!:

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...y-realistic-not-nostalgic-progressive-realism
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Who are "the comrades"?
 
paulfromcamden said:
I quite like the idea of policy being results focused, working towards what can actually be achieved.

My fear is that the current Labour front bench have spent the past year setting our expectation that in fact nothing can be achieved because "there's no money".
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The point of the TINM nonsense is that money will have to come from the private sector. Public money will fund private capital projects.
 
I have this vision of the tories crowded around a computer monitor viewing the inflow of PAYE tax receipts, council tax and business taxes and saying to each other, wow, look at all that lolly, we will have some of that.

Mmmm, a daily viewing of the incoming avalanche, millions and millions of pounds that is tax payers money.
 
Darmok said:
I have this vision of the tories crowded around a computer monitor viewing the inflow of PAYE tax receipts, council tax and business taxes and saying to each other, wow, look at all that lolly, we will have some of that.

Mmmm, a daily viewing of the incoming avalanche, millions and millions of pounds that is tax payers money.
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A Government like ours can create as much money as it wants. It doesn’t need taxpayer’s money

 
Ed Miliband on R4 this morning using the old There Is No Money trick for laughs.

14 years after Liam Byrnes left his funny note for George Osbourne, our political classes are still playing the same old joke on us.

Does anyone still believe this shit?
 
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