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Labour at it again... anti-Semitism... #II

Brian said:
No, I didn’t say that, as I think you know very well. I rest my case. You will spin anything to fit your agenda.

Objectionable as he may be does not mean the allegations against him are proven to be true.
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Two things, you said, "If this 76 a month had been going for a decade, or even decades you might have a point." What does that mean if not 76 a month is no big deal? Secondly, I have no agenda other than trying to be honest in my comments and thinking BJ is a populist c*** of epic proportions
 
gassor said:
Two things, you said, "If this 76 a month had been going for a decade, or even decades you might have a point." What does that mean if not 76 a month is no big deal? Secondly, I have no agenda other than trying to be honest in my comments and thinking BJ is a populist c*** of epic proportions
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Jesus wept!

Listen, almost everybody here seems to accept there is an issue. Only you and a couple of others seem to question that, for some unknown reason.

What almost everybody is talking about is whether AS is endemic, institutionalised within the Labour party. Understand now?
 
Brian said:
Jesus wept!

Listen, almost everybody here seems to accept there is an issue. Only you and a couple of others seem to question that, for some unknown reason.

What almost everybody is talking about is whether AS is endemic, institutionalised within the Labour party. Understand now?
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Wrong. What "almost everybody is talking about is" is the scale of the problem. Some people like yourself think it is exaggerated, others think it is all down to a couple of teenagers with iPhones (seriously) or the Israeli embassy. The central issue is the scale of the anti-semitism in the Labour Party. And keep Jesus out of this, the poor man has suffered enough.
 
Seems to me a pretty pointless song-and-dance, both regarding the LP and on this forum. AS is not like fiddling expenses or making personal use of Party facilities, something that can be pinned down and documented. It is an atmosphere in interpersonal relationships, choices in what initiatives are supported and which are not. A matter of off-hand comments, raised eyebrows, invitations extended or not extended, jobs and promotions given or taken away, people included or excluded from Party activities. Evidently the anti-Israel policy of the LP has opened the doors to individuals and a weltanschauung that favours AS "atmospheres" and comments. I really don't see what can be done about that.
 
PaulMB said:
Seems to me a pretty pointless song-and-dance, both regarding the LP and on this forum. AS is not like fiddling expenses or making personal use of Party facilities, something that can be pinned down and documented. It is an atmosphere in interpersonal relationships, choices in what initiatives are supported and which are not. A matter of off-hand comments, raised eyebrows, invitations extended or not extended, jobs and promotions given or taken away, people included or excluded from Party activities. Evidently the anti-Israel policy of the LP has opened the doors to individuals and a weltanschauung that favours AS "atmospheres" and comments. I really don't see what can be done about that.
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What “anti Israel policy”? There is no such thing.
 
gassor said:
Wrong. What "almost everybody is talking about is" is the scale of the problem. Some people like yourself think it is exaggerated, others think it is all down to a couple of teenagers with iPhones (seriously) or the Israeli embassy. The central issue is the scale of the anti-semitism in the Labour Party. And keep Jesus out of this, the poor man has suffered enough.
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Ok. Not great enough to show the problem is endemic within the party then.
 
Brian said:
Ok. Not great enough to show the problem is endemic within the party then.
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I'm not convinced that the full scale of the anti-semitism has been divulged yet and until there is greater transparency on the issue no one can say whether it is endemic or not. My suspicion, for what it's worth, is that it is not endemic across the whole party, but like Corbyn I think there is the prevalence of anti-semitism in “pockets” of the party. In addition no-one will tell you Labour has handled the issue well.
 
This is well worth a read imo:

Labour, the Left, Antisemitism, Israel and Palestine: a way forward

A call on the UK Labour Party, from within, to unequivocally expunge antisemitism from its ranks.
To do so while standing up for peace and Palestinian rights is possible.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/op...ntisemitism-israel-and-palestine-way-forward/

sq225917 said:
The labour party as case breakdown stats were posted earlier upthread. For me the noise is all out of proportion to the volume of justified complaints.
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Opinion of one = no evidence.
 
Still said:
This is well worth a read imo:

Labour, the Left, Antisemitism, Israel and Palestine: a way forward

A call on the UK Labour Party, from within, to unequivocally expunge antisemitism from its ranks.
To do so while standing up for peace and Palestinian rights is possible.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/op...ntisemitism-israel-and-palestine-way-forward/
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Nice call but given there's a significant proportion of complaints that don't contravene the IHRA ie they are either made in error or maliciously, logic dictates they will never stop ergo that part of the 'problem' will never go away.
 
Pulling this from the grave to note that the Forde Report vindicates those who said that the Labour right, colluding with journalists including those at the BBC, weaponised antisemitism for factional purposes. It also identifies a hierarchy of racism in the party, as well as anti-black racism and Islamophobia.
 
Seanm said:
Pulling this from the grave to note that the Forde Report vindicates those who said that the Labour right, colluding with journalists including those at the BBC, weaponised antisemitism for factional purposes. It also identifies a hierarchy of racism in the party, as well as anti-black racism and Islamophobia.
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The AS smears against Corbyn and the party in general were bought only by those keen to buy. I daresay they are still keen buyers.
 
Seanm said:
Pulling this from the grave to note that the Forde Report vindicates those who said that the Labour right, colluding with journalists including those at the BBC, weaponised antisemitism for factional purposes. It also identifies a hierarchy of racism in the party, as well as anti-black racism and Islamophobia.
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Seems unbalanced as The Forde Report found both factions of LP weaponised anti-Semitism. Six of one and half a dozen of the other.
 
klfrs said:
Seems unbalanced as The Forde Report found both factions of LP weaponised anti-Semitism. Six of one and half a dozen of the other.
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Can you explain how the leadership weaponised antisemitism? It’s an aspect of the report that doesn’t make much sense to me, this “both sides” thing: it says that “anti-Corbyn elements of the party seized on antisemitism as a way to attack Jeremy Corbyn”, so that’s pretty clear. As for the left it says “his supporters saw it simply as an attack on the leader and his faction”: I can see how that can be seen as dismissive, but it doesn’t look like weaponisation to me.
 
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