KEF Speakers?

[Arkless Electronics]

They really are an interesting company. The old reference series were great (104 a/b, 107's, etc.) I think the 104/2's were great sellers and good speakers but started down a path of "flubbiness". By the mid-90's the stuff was awful. Just downright awful. Their uni-q drivers really sucked, they were harsh and didn't seem to give any benefit, whereas Tannoy (who also had some bad years, don't get me wrong) at least gave you that high dynamic impact...thing.

I remember hooking up Q30's, 50's, 70's, they got worse as you went up the ladder.

My understanding about the new holding corp (and, don't skewer me for being wrong here, it's just what I heard at a fairly well educated dealer) is that the new owner quadrupled the R&D budget, threw out the old designs, and that's where we got the Muons, Blades, LS50's, and the models that have sprung both up and down from there (R series, reference series, etc.) They do seem to have some serious re-invigoration going on. But most importantly what they have back is personality.

I've never heard the maidstones but my concern with that was that they were at the tail end of the "kef dark age" and that uni-q driver in the top cabinet was just ball-sucking bad.

I really love the Uni Q drivers in my R105.3's! I'd find it hard to go back to normal separate tweeters... most of the sounding-different-depending-where-you-sit-and-what-angle-your-head-is-at is eliminated! They are not in the least bit harsh....

 

[diybry]

I had 104.2 for a number of years and simply did not want to change the sound, they just sounded 'right' i now have R500s, which include the same driver as the LS50, but also have a couple of bass drivers. Compared o the 104.2s they sound leaner and faster, with improved imaging, perhaps at the cost of losing a little width, but overall very listenable and 'real' sounding. KEF are serious speaker manufacturers, why they are not popular on here I have no idea. Perhaps they don't have the cottage industry/ 'gifted audio wizard' appeal which some smaller manufacturers seem to generate.

 

[yuckyamson]

I really love the Uni Q drivers in my R105.3's! I'd find it hard to go back to normal separate tweeters... most of the sounding-different-depending-where-you-sit-and-what-angle-your-head-is-at is eliminated! They are not in the least bit harsh....

Funny I couldn't stand 105.3's. But perhaps it's vinyl through your phono section that smooths 'em out. (not being sarcastic).

Seriously I just found them really wooly in the bottom, and harsh on top. But it was many, many years ago.

 

[Martyn Miles]

I had 104.2 for a number of years and simply did not want to change the sound, they just sounded 'right' i now have R500s, which include the same driver as the LS50, but also have a couple of bass drivers. Compared o the 104.2s they sound leaner and faster, with improved imaging, perhaps at the cost of losing a little width, but overall very listenable and 'real' sounding. KEF are serious speaker manufacturers, why they are not popular on here I have no idea. Perhaps they don't have the cottage industry/ 'gifted audio wizard' appeal which some smaller manufacturers seem to generate.

I feel it's another case of a British company going ( effectively ) overseas and losing that unique 'Englishness' which Quad, for instance, had.
Many here are older and recall Kef's halcyon days. New listeners will grow up with modern Kef and have no problem...
I understand Spendor is now majority owned by Indian investors.
It would be interesting to hear Derek Hughes' thoughts on the direction of his father's legacy.
M Miles

 

[blossomchris]

105.3's for me. Tad too large for room but with all internal doors open fills the house with sound
My daughter said the bathroom window vibrated with the bass on The Necks-Open


Bloss

 

[Hoopsontoast]

I've only owned the 104/2s and they were excellent, if it was not for the slightly fruity bass in my less than ideal room I would still have them! Tempted to try some at a later date again, with some more room treatment.

The 104/2 are possibly the best built and thought out speakers I have come across. Excellent access panels, proper engineering and all round solid speakers.


System by RSdesignUK, on Flickr

Heard the Blade, 203/2, 205/2 and 207/2 and thought the 205/2 were the best balanced, some of the best Imaging I have heard from ANY speaker, the whole speaker disappears.

 

[fay spook]

I really do appreciate this discussion re. Kef sound quality and wonder if I'm in the minority re. the look of modern Kef speakers.
Design is very subjective ( my Wife is D & T teacher ) and we have endless debates from the design of cars to ( would you believe it ? ) loudspeakers.
She fully accepts my wooden cabinets and my explanation re. the 2 cu. ft. BBC box.
Being a musician she also appreciates sound quality, and mentions what she calls 'brash' ( I think she means bright ) loudspeakers in her friends' houses.
She says my speakers sound like music.
Presumably they are nor Kef speakers she is hearing, but I feel many modern loudspeakers do sound overly bright.
Sign of the times ?
M Miles

Cars lag behind design too far as they take too long to come to market. I am sure we could all show our age by listing our take on the best looking cars. Obviously a Jensen FF.

Of course you are wrong liking square boxes!! Perhaps familiarity breed contempt? But you won't be in the minority not liking the shape of Blades and Muons. Having sold hifi I can tell you how conservative the market is in terms of design. Looking at the system shots here.......Surely your wife will explain to you that most speakers are boxes for ease and cheapness of construction with a bit of domesticity thrown in. I like a different shaped and designed speaker. Thank goodness KEF have had a reasonable history of non-rectilinear designs. However with the proliferation docks we are seeing a step forward in speaker design.

You don't "need" big shelves of books, records, videos, CDs, DVDs etc in your average living room (talking about Kindles etc, I still have books and records ). Hopefully your furniture isn't square boxes so we are running out of square boxes in our rooms. This gives us a chance to update our speaker designs without looking out of place. Give yourself a challenge design wise, too many people stick in a rut and end up being/looking old fashioned. And IT IS 2015, these ideas aren't new any more. It is nearly 100 years since modernism design wise happened.

 

[linnfomaniac83]

I've only owned the 104/2s and they were excellent, if it was not for the slightly fruity bass in my less than ideal room I would still have them! Tempted to try some at a later date again, with some more room treatment.

The 104/2 are possibly the best built and thought out speakers I have come across. Excellent access panels, proper engineering and all round solid speakers.


System by RSdesignUK, on Flickr

Heard the Blade, 203/2, 205/2 and 207/2 and thought the 205/2 were the best balanced, some of the best Imaging I have heard from ANY speaker, the whole speaker disappears.

The best imaging I have heard was from a pair of Ruark Crusader IIIs, so real it's spooky!

 

[fay spook]

I've only owned the 104/2s and they were excellent, if it was not for the slightly fruity bass in my less than ideal room I would still have them! Tempted to try some at a later date again, with some more room treatment.

You can hear them anytime at Rough Trade off the Portobello Road. The bass is rubbish there too.

I still have some of the KEF design notes leaflets somewhere. As people have said, KEF have an excellent track record in technical thoroughness. A good company.

 

[Martyn Miles]

Cars lag behind design too far as they take too long to come to market. I am sure we could all show our age by listing our take on the best looking cars. Obviously a Jensen FF.

Of course you are wrong liking square boxes!! Perhaps familiarity breed contempt? But you won't be in the minority not liking the shape of Blades and Muons. Having sold hifi I can tell you how conservative the market is in terms of design. Looking at the system shots here.......Surely your wife will explain to you that most speakers are boxes for ease and cheapness of construction with a bit of domesticity thrown in. I like a different shaped and designed speaker. Thank goodness KEF have had a reasonable history of non-rectilinear designs. However with the proliferation docks we are seeing a step forward in speaker design.

You don't "need" big shelves of books, records, videos, CDs, DVDs etc in your average living room (talking about Kindles etc, I still have books and records ). Hopefully your furniture isn't square boxes so we are running out of square boxes in our rooms. This gives us a chance to update our speaker designs without looking out of place. Give yourself a challenge design wise, too many people stick in a rut and end up being/looking old fashioned. And IT IS 2015, these ideas aren't new any more. It is nearly 100 years since modernism design wise happened.

Re. books, CDs and cassettes, if I want to own them I will.
(Oddly enough, they fit nicely on what you call 'square' shelves )

'Stuck in a rut' is your personal opinion.
You and I know that design is a very personal thing.
Cars, for instance.
Many, including me, feel the Nissan Juke is the ugliest car they have ever seen.
Others love it.
No problem with me.

I am sure Kef ( like Nissan ) did their market research as to the shape of the Blades, taking in the acoustical elements of the design.
Re. my wife and design, she ( and you ) know a functional design has an aesthetic of its own.
Look at the original mini compared with the modern MINI.
The fact you worked in audio retailing is somewhat irrelevant.
As a semi-pro. audio person, the monitor speaker I use does a job. Its shape is secondary...

 

[fay spook]

Re. books, CDs and cassettes, if I want to own them I will.
(Oddly enough, they fit nicely on what you call 'square' shelves )

'Stuck in a rut' is your personal opinion.
You and I know that design is a very personal thing.
Cars, for instance.
Many, including me, feel the Nissan Juke is the ugliest car they have ever seen.
Others love it.
No problem with me.

I am sure Kef ( like Nissan ) did their market research as to the shape of the Blades, taking in the acoustical elements of the design.
Re. my wife and design, she ( and you ) know a functional design has an aesthetic of its own.
Look at the original mini compared with the modern MINI.
The fact you worked in audio retailing is somewhat irrelevant.
As a semi-pro. audio person, the monitor speaker I use does a job. Its shape is secondary...

Whoops, sorry about this but you appear to have the wrong end of every stick.

From the top: I wasn't saying you can't own physical media, I was saying you don't "need" to today and I said I still have my records and books in the living room. Thousands of the former and hundreds of the latter. But today you can have this on a hard drive. This would mean a big change to a listening room and the boxes in it.

Of course car companies do research but this can lead to a Juke and much as it can lead to the F-Type. They are justified here because they have huge markets and make Nissan lots of money but this doesn't always lead to good design, design that will be remembered. I remain to be convinced that a car company with all its testing, legislation and manufacturing etc can react more quickly than other forms of design such as fashion or graphics. Fashion "has" to keep producing new designs and so it will throw up more ideas than something like car design because of this cycle length.

I mentioned working in retail to try to add weight to my argument that your average hi-fi customer is relatively conservative in their design outlook. I also dealt with a lot of customers who still had their college systems 20 years down the line. I would say stuck in a rut. I dealt with thousands of customers and some even bought things from me. I am happy to concede this point if you have wider experience and one that is contrary to mine- added to showing me catalogues full of design forward products (of course there are plenty of well designed products, even ones I like!!).

If my retail experience is irrelevant what can I make of your semi-pro experience when I work full time in the technical side of audio? Like you say, I don't mind......

I am not saying you can't have box speakers. I have ES14s. I am not saying you can't have records in your listening room. I do. I am not saying box speakers are no good. Many are superb. What I am saying, with an attempt at light heartedness hence the !!!!! & and absolute arguments, we should be open to new designs. All my posts are relatively light hearted but I am happy to offer an opinion- my opinion. Cue

I see you haven't spoken too much about my comments about speakers being boxes for reasons that aren't always sound quality. Of course the shape can be secondary, it is also just as valid to choose speakers because of their looks. Not perhaps the main reason here but in the wider market it has its place. What would the BBC design team have done if they had access to modern manufacturing processes? We will never know but given a lot of money, and not just time and skill, I don't think a 2015 BBC monitor would look like an LS5/8 etc.

If I have caused ANY offence I will happily apologise. And If I haven't caused offence I also apologise (<<<< attempt at light heartedness)

 

[strummer]

Re. books, CDs and cassettes, if I want to own them I will.
(Oddly enough, they fit nicely on what you call 'square' shelves )

'Stuck in a rut' is your personal opinion.
You and I know that design is a very personal thing.
Cars, for instance.
Many, including me, feel the Nissan Juke is the ugliest car they have ever seen.
Others love it.
No problem with me.

I am sure Kef ( like Nissan ) did their market research as to the shape of the Blades, taking in the acoustical elements of the design.
Re. my wife and design, she ( and you ) know a functional design has an aesthetic of its own.
Look at the original mini compared with the modern MINI.
The fact you worked in audio retailing is somewhat irrelevant.
As a semi-pro. audio person, the monitor speaker I use does a job. Its shape is secondary...

Of course the aesthetics are about personal taste, but in terms performance, Curves give Stiffness & Aerodynamics. Look how Cars have benefited. Curves & folds allow for much thinner gauge steel or even Plastic to be used. In Speakers it can reduce distortion & box colouration.

 

[Martyn Miles]

Whoops, sorry about this but you appear to have the wrong end of every stick.

From the top: I wasn't saying you can't own physical media, I was saying you don't "need" to today and I said I still have my records and books in the living room. Thousands of the former and hundreds of the latter. But today you can have this on a hard drive. This would mean a big change to a listening room and the boxes in it.

Of course car companies do research but this can lead to a Juke and much as it can lead to the F-Type. They are justified here because they have huge markets and make Nissan lots of money but this doesn't always lead to good design, design that will be remembered. I remain to be convinced that a car company with all its testing, legislation and manufacturing etc can react more quickly than other forms of design such as fashion or graphics. Fashion "has" to keep producing new designs and so it will throw up more ideas than something like car design because of this cycle length.

I mentioned working in retail to try to add weight to my argument that your average hi-fi customer is relatively conservative in their design outlook. I also dealt with a lot of customers who still had their college systems 20 years down the line. I would say stuck in a rut. I dealt with thousands of customers and some even bought things from me. I am happy to concede this point if you have wider experience and one that is contrary to mine- added to showing me catalogues full of design forward products (of course there are plenty of well designed products, even ones I like!!).

If my retail experience is irrelevant what can I make of your semi-pro experience when I work full time in the technical side of audio? Like you say, I don't mind......

I am not saying you can't have box speakers. I have ES14s. I am not saying you can't have records in your listening room. I do. I am not saying box speakers are no good. Many are superb. What I am saying, with an attempt at light heartedness hence the !!!!! & and absolute arguments, we should be open to new designs. All my posts are relatively light hearted but I am happy to offer an opinion- my opinion. Cue

I see you haven't spoken too much about my comments about speakers being boxes for reasons that aren't always sound quality. Of course the shape can be secondary, it is also just as valid to choose speakers because of their looks. Not perhaps the main reason here but in the wider market it has its place. What would the BBC design team have done if they had access to modern manufacturing processes? We will never know but given a lot of money, and not just time and skill, I don't think a 2015 BBC monitor would look like an LS5/8 etc.

If I have caused ANY offence I will happily apologise. And If I haven't caused offence I also apologise (<<<< attempt at light heartedness)

No offence taken.
I take things too seriously and sometimes get it wrong...