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Kef Reference which model ?

O

OLD SCHOOL

MrBlueSky
Having had kef speakers in the past and liking them I have been toying with idea of trying an older pair of reference speakers (older due to cost). I was thinking along the lines of 104/2 's what are your thoughts? which model in the range do you think are considered the best?
 
104/2's are bloody good but there's one thing to check first - the tweeters.

They contain a ferro-fluid which, once it's dried out, means the tweeter is all but knackered, usually because it either jams up or overheats.

People have tried removing/replacing the fluid and/or replacing the tweeter. Results have been very variable to say the least. The replacement tweeter recommended by KEF has been said to be somewhat on the shrill side.

That said, a decent pair with working tweeters should last for many years yet if used sympathetically.

Cheers
Adrian
 
Also check the foam doughnuts on the bass drivers. Each of the two drivers inside the box has a foam ring around the outside and the centre. They can perish which totally screws up the bass.

They're a speaker I've thought of for myself, I've never read a bad word.

Certainly they are from KEFs haydays.
 
Owned a pair which I bought from the factory when I worked there over twenty years ago. Sold them 12months ago. Mine had the perished doughnut problem but you can buy replacement foams or I actually sent mine to Dave Smith in Essex and he replaced them for £14 for each drive unit. Ace speaker and only beaten by briks or 107s but the latter are over a grand at the moment

CJ
 
I've worked on both the 104.2 and the 105.2.

The B200's in the 104.2 have rubber surrounds and foam centres.

The B200's in the 105.2 have foam surrounds, unique to any version of the B200, and I assume an attempt to get the drivers' free air resonance as low as possible, given the use of paper cones to up the sensitivity.

The foam centres are a custom part and not readily available. I assume they are there to help the voice coil stay centered at high excursion when using the Kube, but the speakers work fine without them.

Good as the 104.2 is, by comparison the 105.2 is much better built, you can tell that is the later design.
 
Im using active sbl's at the moment, having used kef's previously with naim they seem to work well together my room is 17x16 foot, Can kube be used with naim amps? as kube would be great to tune them to the room, would 107's be to big? I suppose the 104/2's are a good buy at the moment at around 200-300 pounds.
 
OLD SCHOOL said:
Im using active sbl's at the moment, having used kef's previously with naim they seem to work well together my room is 17x16 foot, Can kube be used with naim amps? as kube would be great to tune them to the room, would 107's be to big? I suppose the 104/2's are a good buy at the moment at around 200-300 pounds.
Click to expand...

107s - how deep are your pockets? This looks a nice pair!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI....akeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en

Or this may be a safer "buy it now" price?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Kef-Reference...omeAudioHiFi_HiFiSpeakers?hash=item4ced498619
 
This site contains affiliate links for which pink fish media may be compensated.
I have to say, while the Kube allows 'tuning' things sounded better without it; possibly because the 'conjugate load match' (a 'flat' but low 3-4ohms impedance) the 104/2s used and limited sensitivity together with a substantial bass boost by the Kube under 50Hz, tends to steam-roll amplifiers. YOu'l like it only if you don't want loud LOUD.


Otherwise the 104/2s are very nice speakers; slightly 'restrained' sounding, but clean, good for long hours of listening. My bro ran them for years and after being flooded-out, took a while to settle on suitably-capable replacements ( Shahinian Obelisks, if that's any guide.)
 
104/2 Refs are fantastic. As Martin said I ran them for years. They're current hungry and Naim amps are a good match. It's easier to replace the foam on the later models and they have lush midrange to die for.

The Kube was good for low level classica music but made the KEFs, which are astonishingly fast and agile seem slow and plodding on Rock music. In the end, I took the Kube out because it wasn't worth it with my Naim amp. I ran them with a 140 which was fine at the levels we listen. Obviously, a bigger Naim amp would give more slam.

Be warned it took us more than 2 years to find something we could live wiith after the 104/2s.
 
Hi everyone i was looking for a link to discuss tweeters and this one came up in the search box so i guess i will proceed with my poser..does anyone here happen to know anything about the KEF T27? i have seen 2 versions of these drivers availible on e-bay and i can't understand why 1 version is so much dearer than the other. the early version as i know it has a plain black face plate and that is priced around £45-68 for a pair but the later version with the blue & black wires either side of the dome are around £100 a pair, now surely if they are the same unit why is 1 dearer than the other? my thoughts are maybe the later version is sonically better? any ideas or tecnical facts would be very gratefully received many thanks matthew
 
Where in the UK are you? (If indeed you are in the UK). I have a pair of 104/2s arriving today but I do not yet know the condition as I bought them as part of a complete system and I was only really interested in the Naim NAT101!! I am in Dorset. Once I have had chance to check them out I will let you know as I won't be keeping them (currently have three pairs of Isobariks, although two are sold) as wife will go ballistic!!!

CJ
 
Personally I prefer the 104 ABs. Apart from the sound, which does deep and rich, they're a much more manageable size, too, and they're not fussy about placement.
 
CJ1045 said:
.... as I won't be keeping them (currently have three pairs of Isobariks, although two are sold) as wife will go ballistic!!!

CJ
Click to expand...

CJ, tut tut!

Check your software!

Girlfriend 6.0 vs. Wife 1.0
Comparative Trial

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Last year a friend of mine upgraded from GirlFriend 6.0 to Wife 1.0 and found that it's a memory hog leaving very little system resources available for other applications. He is now noticing that Wife 1.0 is also spawning Child Processes which are further consuming valuable resources. No mention of this particular phenomena was included in the product brochure or the documentation, though other users have informed him that this is to be expected due to the nature of the application.

Not only that, Wife 1.0 installs itself such that it is always launched at system initialization, where it can monitor all other system activity. He's finding that some applications such as PokerNight 10.3, BeerBash 2.5, and PubNight 7.0, Audio Expenses16.3 and LP Buyer 999 are no longer able to run in the system at all, crashing the system when selected (even though they always worked fine before). During installation, Wife 1.0 provides no option as to the installation of undesired Plug-Ins such as MotherInLaw 55.8 and BrotherInLaw Beta release. Also, system performance seems to diminish with each passing day.

Some features he'd like to see in the upcoming wife 2.0.

a "Don't remind me again" button
a Minimize button
An install shield feature that allows Wife 2.0 be installed with the option to uninstall at any time without the loss of cache and other system resources
An option to run the network driver in promiscuous mode which would allow the system's hardware probe feature to be much more useful.
I myself decided to avoid the headaches associated with Wife 1.0 by sticking with Girlfriend 7.0. Even here, however, I found many problems. Apparently you cannot install Girlfriend 7.0 on top of Girlfriend 6.0. You must uninstall Girlfriend 6.0 first. Other users say this is a long standing bug that I should have known about. Apparently the versions of Girlfriend have conficts over shared use of the I/O port. You think they would have fixed such a stupid bug by now. To make matters worse, The uninstall program for Girlfriend 6.0 doesn't work very well leaving undesirable traces of the application in the system. Another thing -- all versions of Girlfriend continually popup little annoying messages about the advantages of upgrading to Wife 1.0.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bug Warning
Wife 1.0 has an undocumented bug. If you try to install Mistress 1.1 before uninstalling Wife 1.0, Wife 1.0 will delete MSMoney files before doing the uninstall itself. Then Mistress 1.1 will refuse to install, claiming insufficient resources.

Bug work-arounds: To avoid this bug, try installing Mistress 1.1 on a different system and never run any file transfer applications such as Laplink 6.0. Also, beware of similar shareware applications that have been known to carry viruses that may affect Wife 1.0. Another solution would be to run Mistress 1.1 via a UseNet provider under an anonymous name. Here again, beware of the viruses which can accidently be downloaded from the UseNet.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tech Support Suggestions
These are very common problem men complain about, but is mostly due to a primary misconception. Many people upgrade from Girlfriend 6.0 to Wife 1.0 with the idea that Wife 1.0 is merely a Utilities & Entertainment program. Wife 1.0 is indeed an operating system and designed by its creator to run everything.

It is unlikely you would be able to purge Wife 1.0 and still convert back to Girlfriend 6.0. Hidden operating files within your system would cause Girlfriend 6.0 to emulate Wife 1.0 so nothing is gained. It is impossible to uninstall, delete, or purge the program files from the system once installed. You cannot go back to Girlfriend 6.0 because Wife 1.0 is not designed to do this.

Some have tried to install Girlfriend 7.0 or Wife 2.0 but end up with more problems than the original system. Look in your manual under "Warnings - Alimony/Child support". I recommend you keep Wife 1.0 and deal with the situation.

I suggest installing background application program C:\YES DEAR to alleviate software augmentation. Having installed Wife 1.0 myself, I might also suggest you read the entire section regarding General Partnership Faults (GPFs). You must assume all responsibility for faults and problems that might occur, regardless of their cause. The best course of action will be to enter the command C:\APOLOGIZE. In any case avoid excessive use of C:\YES DEAR because ultimately you may have to give the APOLOGIZE command before the operating system will return to normal. The system will run smoothly as long as you take the blame for all the GPFs.

Wife 1.0 is a great program, but very high-maintenance. Consider buying additional software to improve the performance of Wife 1.0. I recommend Flowers 3.1 and Diamonds 2K. Do not, under any circumstances, install Secretary with Short Skirt 3.3. This is not a supported application for Wife 1.0 and is likely to cause irreversible damage to the operating system.

Best of Luck,
Tech Support

(Old but still good!

Best regards

Bagga)
 
Bagga said:
107s - how deep are your pockets? This looks a nice pair!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI....akeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en

Or this may be a safer "buy it now" price?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Kef-Reference...omeAudioHiFi_HiFiSpeakers?hash=item4ced498619
Click to expand...

Please be aware that the pair with BIN £800 does not have the original 107 Kube and the 107/2 does not have any kube at all. The kube alone can fetch £150 to 300 or more, and they don't come up very often. Also the 4 nr bass drivers would most likely require a refoam job if they have not already been done and this will set you back about £250.

I have tried my 107 with and without the kube and IMHO it definately sound much better with and I just couldn't possibly listen to the Kef without the Kube.

Have a look at Stereophile review in 1988 on 107/1. I know there are two schools about the kube. But you must at lease give the kube a try before you decide with or without.

The other thing is that the 107 was also in Stereophile list of top 25 speakers of past 40 years.
 
This site contains affiliate links for which pink fish media may be compensated.
107s are indeed awesome but I far preferred my 104/2 without the Kube. It really depends on room/house though. If you put the Kube in then you get seriously low bass like nothing you have heard before. It rattles walls, windows, the sofa, the cat and you think there is a steam roller passing the house. Saying that I have only heard the 107s in KEFs purpose built listening room but I spent most lunchtimes for the Summer I worked there listening to them - never to be forgotten though. Even the Flat Response liked them

CJ
 
CJ1045 said:
.. If you put the Kube in then you get seriously low bass like nothing you have heard before. It rattles walls, windows, the sofa, the cat and you think there is a steam roller passing the house
CJ
Click to expand...

This effect sounds like my subwoofer on the AV system.... shae rattle and roll with the "movies"!

So what is/was the KEF Kube then CJ? I recall seeing it reviewed way back in the 80's when it was first released with certain KEF Reference Series models, but wasn't sure what the device actually did (may haved read once but long forgotten). Presumably it is some sort of analogue sound processor / bass contouring device ??????

(Google KEF KUBE not and you just get their Sub Woofer range)
 
CJ1045 said:
Where in the UK are you? (If indeed you are in the UK). I have a pair of 104/2s arriving today but I do not yet know the condition as I bought them as part of a complete system and I was only really interested in the Naim NAT101!! I am in Dorset. Once I have had chance to check them out I will let you know as I won't be keeping them (currently have three pairs of Isobariks, although two are sold) as wife will go ballistic!!!

CJ
Click to expand...

HI im in Devon not far if they are good i may be interested my origional incling was 104/2 with out kube then build a new system around them in time.
 
The Kube was a bass extender and a bass level tool in one. It is exactly like what Linn do with their bass active cards. Kef knew the bass response of the standard 104/2. The Kube applies a bass boost to the signal that exactly compensates for the natural bass roll off of the speaker.

For example (fictitious):

104/2 Frequency response :
100Hz 0db
50Hz -1.5db
20Hz -5.5db

Kube frequency response:
100Hz 0db
50Hz +1.5db
20Hz +5.5db

Net respose 0db to 20Hz i.e. Flat

Now there were physical limits that stopped this from going down to 5Hz, say. The drive units could not physically move enough (as in inches) to achieve the very low frequency response. They tended to 'double' - that is move at twice the frequency that they were fed with i.e. 10Hz signal caused them to give out 20Hz

On top of this the Kube had a bass level control that allowed you to tilt the bass response lower or higher than the flat response achieved above (think the 104/2 was +/- 2db from memory)


The Isobariks had the same but not so elegant add on - it was called the Bingo and had to be fitted to an Isobarik Aktiv box but did essentially the same thing.

CJ
 
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