mandryka
pfm Member
Absolutely.
There is nonetheless the idea of the Promised Land, a deal with God which gave Jews the land of Israel. I don't know to what extent it is fuelling the actions of Israel today.
Jewish hats
- Thread starter puddlesplasher
- Start date
There is nonetheless the idea of the Promised Land, a deal with God which gave Jews the land of Israel. I don't know to what extent it is fuelling the actions of Israel today.
PaulMB
pfm Member
Would you say that Shintoism is a particularly Japanese, but direct offshoot of Buddhism then? In the way Methodists and Anglicans are branches of Christianity? Or does Shintoism have some kind of roots separate from Buddha? It may be a silly question but I have no idea.
matthewr
spɹɐʍʞɔɐq spɹoɔǝɹ ɹnoʎ sʎɐld
An interesting perspective.
Finnegan
I like a bit of a cavort
Indeed, you could also make a similar argument in relation to Islam. There are crucial differences however. Neither Catholic, Protestant, Buddhist or Hindu have ever constituted what Abraham Leon characterises as a ‘people class.’ Whilst adherents to those religions cited above have, at different points in history and to greater or lesser degrees, been persecuted, none have been subject to the sort of systematic oppression of anti-Semitism, that determined their economic status (and therefore historical role) by allowing them only one specific occupation (ok, Islam IS subject to systematic oppression, but that is a very recent development).
Additionally, I, as a white (lapsed) Christian male, do not have a Christian ‘cultural identity’ in the manner that some non-observant Jews claim to possess. It makes no sense to claim a ‘Christian culture’ due to the plethora of ethnic, national and social divisions that characterise Christianity. Christians were never systematically persecuted and marginalised to the extent that engendered Leon’s people class’ status of Jews. It is this that negates the anti-Semitic argument that Jews, as Jews, do not experience racism, as Jews are not a ‘race’ (ditto Islamophobia).
“Leon argues that the Jews represent historically a social group with specific economic functions, firstly in commerce and later in usury. They are both a class and a people–the term he uses to describe them is ‘people-class’. It is because the Jews preserved themselves through their activities as a class that they also defined themselves as having a common ethnic identity, based on shared religious and linguistic features.“
Zionism and Anti-Semitism: The Jewish Question - Socialist Worker
To be anti-Zionist does not mean you are anti-Semitic.
socialistworker.co.uk
gintonic
50 shades of grey pussy cats
why?
Pravda
pfm Member
matthewr
spɹɐʍʞɔɐq spɹoɔǝɹ ɹnoʎ sʎɐld
It was just a joke based on the meaning of foreshortening.
PaulMB
pfm Member
From what I know what you say is absolutely correct. I would add, though, that what has also shaped Jewish identity over the millennia is that they never stood on land that they could consider really their own. They could know that they were living well, or fairly well, depending on period and circumstances, in Portugal, England, Russia, Italy, Morocco or wherever. But always with the knowledge that sooner or later they could be forced to move elsewhere. Something which I think did much to shape and reinforce an identity as Jews.Indeed, you could also make a similar argument in relation to Islam. There are crucial differences however. Neither Catholic, Protestant, Buddhist or Hindu have ever constituted what Abraham Leon characterises as a ‘people class.’ Whilst adherents to those religions cited above have, at different points in history and to greater or lesser degrees, been persecuted, none have been subject to the sort of systematic oppression of anti-Semitism, that determined their economic status (and therefore historical role) by allowing them only one specific occupation (ok, Islam IS subject to systematic oppression, but that is a very recent development).
Additionally, I, as a white (lapsed) Christian male, do not have a Christian ‘cultural identity’ in the manner that some non-observant Jews claim to possess. It makes no sense to claim a ‘Christian culture’ due to the plethora of ethnic, national and social divisions that characterise Christianity. Christians were never systematically persecuted and marginalised to the extent that engendered Leon’s people class’ status of Jews. It is this that negates the anti-Semitic argument that Jews, as Jews, do not experience racism, as Jews are not a ‘race’ (ditto Islamophobia).
“Leon argues that the Jews represent historically a social group with specific economic functions, firstly in commerce and later in usury. They are both a class and a people–the term he uses to describe them is ‘people-class’. It is because the Jews preserved themselves through their activities as a class that they also defined themselves as having a common ethnic identity, based on shared religious and linguistic features.“
Zionism and Anti-Semitism: The Jewish Question - Socialist Worker
To be anti-Zionist does not mean you are anti-Semitic.
During the First World War, Jews in Germany, Italy and Austria, countries in which they were firmly and apparently seamlessly integrated into the local middle class, volunteered for military service in far greater proportion than Gentiles. They did so to underline their patriotism, their belonging to The Nation. And we know how that ended, just a few years later. In contrast, a Gentile German, Italian or Austrian can fear many things, but not the threat of being suddenly uprooted and expelled.
paulfromcamden
Baffled
Shinto is the native religion of Japan and encompasses the creation myth of the Japanese nation. At heart it's an animistic religion that worships the natural world and the spirits (kami) that exist in nature - mountains, rivers, trees and so on. It includes a lot of traditional folk beliefs. It was only codified into something resembling an organised religion - sometimes referred to as State Shinto - in the late c19th.
Various schools of Buddhism were brought to Japan between the c6th and c12th and, as Buddhism tends to do when it's introduced somewhere, over time absorbed a lot of local traditional beliefs. So over hundreds of years the two religions remained distinct but became entwined. In the late c19th Buddhism was suppressed by the state and Shinto promoted by the nationalist Meiji administration. Shinto was then in turn suppressed by the US after the war because of it's links to Japanese imperialism.
PaulMB
pfm Member
Thank you!
Marchbanks
Hat and Beard member
But what is her hat policy? We need to know.
Seeker_UK
Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans
Finnegan
I like a bit of a cavort
I wasn't arguing in favour of matriarchy, simply observing that that is how Jews themselves define Jewishness. Apparently t’was not ever thus.
Who Is a Jew: Matrilineal Descent | My Jewish Learning
Why is Judaism passed down through the mother?
www.myjewishlearning.com
PaulMB
pfm Member
The only part I understood is the part about mules mating with horses (but I thought mules did not "do it"), and even that not too clearly. Interesting, though, about the social/professional standing coming from the father, but the underlying "nationality" from the mother.I wasn't arguing in favour of matriarchy, simply observing that that is how Jews themselves define Jewishness. Apparently t’was not ever thus.
Who Is a Jew: Matrilineal Descent | My Jewish Learning
Why is Judaism passed down through the mother?
sq225917
Bit of this, bit of that
Seems like a choice of standings that reflect the varied gender contributions from the historically typical family unit.
I wonder if it leads to a lower divorce rate?
.......Checks stats, hey what do you know, 5 times less than protestant catholics in the US and lower than atheists...
I wonder if it leads to a lower divorce rate?
.......Checks stats, hey what do you know, 5 times less than protestant catholics in the US and lower than atheists...
MVV
pfm Member
Good thread title, I was hoping this was going to be quite funny. Very disappointing.
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-alan-
pfm Member
That must be a special 'Merkin version of Catholicism I'm guessing..
