Is there any hifi merit in surround sound amps?
- Thread starter legolas
- Start date
Suffolk Tony
Aim low, achieve your goals, avoid disappointment.
I care not for objective measurements. As Music Freak notes, the A/V market is fiercely competitive and the Home Cinema folks are just as critical as the stereo crew. As a consequence, A/V receivers have to be good to compete; the latest ones bear little resemblance to those available ten years or so ago.
retseldrib
pfm Member
My mate has a Yamaha surround amp (weighs a ton and it cost thousands at the time) of which drives Wilmslow Audio Prestige speakers - sounds great in stereo and with the full surround set up which are also Wilmslow.
Oh the DAC is ok but a little harsh in stereo mode so he uses an external DAC instead for this.
Oh the DAC is ok but a little harsh in stereo mode so he uses an external DAC instead for this.
I have been using an Audiolab 8002AP as my AV surround processor and pre-amp for my stereo sources.
This is a great AV processor which has a direct mode for stereo inputs so doesn't go through any form of processing.
My Power end is driven by Linn Akurate 4200 for front speakers Bi-amped.
I have been running a Linn Akurate DS which I think sounds superb though this system and only this week I have dived back into the vinyl world with a Michell Orbe, OL Illustrious tonearm, and AT-ART9 Cartridge. First impressions even before burn is OMG.
I have been in the Naim camp twice but left both times and happy with this set up.
Have to admit that I dont use it for any 2channel DAC duties and SACD is dealt with via the oppo (Audiocom tripped) and direct 7:1 input to the 8002AP.
This is a great AV processor which has a direct mode for stereo inputs so doesn't go through any form of processing.
My Power end is driven by Linn Akurate 4200 for front speakers Bi-amped.
I have been running a Linn Akurate DS which I think sounds superb though this system and only this week I have dived back into the vinyl world with a Michell Orbe, OL Illustrious tonearm, and AT-ART9 Cartridge. First impressions even before burn is OMG.
I have been in the Naim camp twice but left both times and happy with this set up.
Have to admit that I dont use it for any 2channel DAC duties and SACD is dealt with via the oppo (Audiocom tripped) and direct 7:1 input to the 8002AP.
Cable Monkey
A chip on both shoulders...
This is an important point. My experience was the very high end stuff is very capable. However AV gear is terrible at holding its price so I would research pre-HDMI flagship amplifiers. An effective bypass mode is key so no video processing is being carried out. Back then I did a direct comparison between my mid range 5.1 channel Demon and a similarly priced 2 channel amp. My experience was 2 channel won hands down, cheaper AV gear seems to be voiced for the boom and tizz of AV and not the subtleties of properly produced recordings.
Disbeliever
pfm Member
In my experience the best AVR for surround sound is the Sony STR-DA5400ES it has excellent pre-out amp. excellent MM phono stage, excellent FM tuner never mentioned in any of the reviews. EISA award winner Best Product 2008/9. of course no longer available. Definately has Hi-Fi merit.
jobseeker
pfm Member
In my multi channel room I use the latest Arcam AVR 550. It's damn good. If I could have afforded/justified the 850 model, it would be even better. I still probably listen more to music than movies in there, as most of the time I can't dislodge my wife from her favourite couch in the room where my stereo system is.
antinchip
pfm Member
My hybrid 2 channel / 7.1 system comprises;
Arcam AVR300 directly feeding;
centre channel (Castle Keep spkr)
surround left and right - Mission di-polar spkrs
rear left and right -Mission di-polar spkrs
sub - BK XXL400
Pre-outs feeding;
Chevron Audio Paradox pre via HT bypass to Croft 7R monoblocks to left and right main - Tannoy Turnberry SE's
Sounds pretty good and 2-channel "proper listening" is only changing the input select on the Paradox.
Just about to experiment by hooking up a Croft 7 power amp in mono mode to the centre channel pre-out.
All good fun.
Cheers
Anthony
Arcam AVR300 directly feeding;
centre channel (Castle Keep spkr)
surround left and right - Mission di-polar spkrs
rear left and right -Mission di-polar spkrs
sub - BK XXL400
Pre-outs feeding;
Chevron Audio Paradox pre via HT bypass to Croft 7R monoblocks to left and right main - Tannoy Turnberry SE's
Sounds pretty good and 2-channel "proper listening" is only changing the input select on the Paradox.
Just about to experiment by hooking up a Croft 7 power amp in mono mode to the centre channel pre-out.
All good fun.
Cheers
Anthony
PhilCTTE
Senior mumbler
what is a Toy version AudiolabOne for kiddies?
Actually I must have had a brain leak as I have the fusion model. Both are pimped versions of the Mdac by John Westlake the designer. Pimped as in rebuilt output stage and multiple resistors replaced and many other components as well.
Played with Anthems Arc and Audyssey, but not used Dirac which is present in some of the Arcam receivers. I've heard great things about Dirac. So hopefully when John Westlake completes the FDAC with its powerful digital board we will see some form of room correction magic. The only problem with this is unless I buy more slave units for 5.1 then I will be using it only for stereo and not multi channel music . Using REW first to sort out any major flaws in the new room. Little steps! I've gone for an Atmos 11 channel 7.4.1 setup and it's proving expensive.
It's a difficult way forward to implement a surround system and a top quality stereo outfit. Timbre matching surround channels with the main stereo pair . Some of these esoteric multi channel systems cost way over my budget 10's of £thousands .. So getting back on topic the only real success I've had so far, for a reasonable budget is with the Anthem receiver and bypass with external DAC and power amp. Still have a couple of months to go before this current implementation is up and running.
onlyconnect
pfm Member
I use a Yamaha surround receiver for hi-fi. I used to have a Naim amp for stereo and switch between them, but it was a huge inconvenience and the comparison showed little difference in sound (actually it was a Denon receiver at the time) so I went with the surround receiver for all duties and it works fine.
Tim
Tim
Jonboi
Because Music Matters
I bought my Sony TA-DA9000ES amp back in 2004 and still have it years later. At the time, with careful level matched volume settings, and some blind AB testing, it outdid my then Naim 72/HiCap/180 in terms of resolution and transient response, ultimately being more 'musical' as well as more transparent/revealing etc.
Speakers used were my Naim SBL's, and despite buying the Sony essentially for add on use to the Naim to provide surround and drive rear surround speakers, the results were such that the Naim languished in favour of the Sony when listening to 2 channel stereo, and eventually after a year or so, the Naim electronics were all sold off.
Frankly I never missed the Naim after hearing and living with the Sony, and from a finish and component POV, the Sony walked all over the Naim - Nichion Gold capacitors and a massive linear power supply, double walled copper plated chassis all allen keyed - 324 watts RMS into 8 ohms 2 channels, with both channels driven - lots of headroom and much smoother sound than than the Naim, which at equivalent volume levels on an SPL meter could be heard clearly clipping on peaks.
There is a great deal of pseudo science and elitism in the narrow niche of the audiophile world; most AV amps of today are more than good enough to satisfy all but the most obsessive (and wealthy) stereo listener, as well as providing entertainment for all the family and friends with the likes of Dolby Atmos for movies etc, giving value for money re entertainment for the dollar spend, that the dedicated two channel only amp struggles to match in my experience.
John
Speakers used were my Naim SBL's, and despite buying the Sony essentially for add on use to the Naim to provide surround and drive rear surround speakers, the results were such that the Naim languished in favour of the Sony when listening to 2 channel stereo, and eventually after a year or so, the Naim electronics were all sold off.
Frankly I never missed the Naim after hearing and living with the Sony, and from a finish and component POV, the Sony walked all over the Naim - Nichion Gold capacitors and a massive linear power supply, double walled copper plated chassis all allen keyed - 324 watts RMS into 8 ohms 2 channels, with both channels driven - lots of headroom and much smoother sound than than the Naim, which at equivalent volume levels on an SPL meter could be heard clearly clipping on peaks.
There is a great deal of pseudo science and elitism in the narrow niche of the audiophile world; most AV amps of today are more than good enough to satisfy all but the most obsessive (and wealthy) stereo listener, as well as providing entertainment for all the family and friends with the likes of Dolby Atmos for movies etc, giving value for money re entertainment for the dollar spend, that the dedicated two channel only amp struggles to match in my experience.
John
Del monaco
Del Monaco
Well put. I agree with what you say. I also preferred some elements of the Onkyo presentation to my previous NAC 82/180 combo, though I did miss some of the drive and dynamics that the Naim gave. I listen mostly to Classical and Jazz with an odd nod to Nick Cave and the like, so the Onkyo and now my current Yamaha are good enough.
Music freak
pfm Member
Don't not forget now the terribly unfortunate venture of one English manufacturer ( you all know WHO) noticeably ventured in the AV market once. With a ' no need for centre channel ' extra 2 channel (add-on amp) to make a 4 channel AV set up. So as to allegedly not taint ' one's existing so called -revered 2 channel stereo amp' from the same stable.
What an expensive, laughable quickly disappeared 'booby -prize' ( on the Lay -by principle???!!!!
)of 'British invention -that was! Well, your comment does provoke the need for a certain type of unfortunate question.
Question: "And since when, did the UK market noted today for its ever increasing reductive 'piddling, flea bite' amounts of HI FI sound equipment (either in sheer unit volume output and /or for different manufacturing brands) matter / become the centre of attention in the audio universe of the World???!!
Suffolk Tony
Aim low, achieve your goals, avoid disappointment.
Yet that same manufacturer produced the AV2 7.1 processor, still a superb device. I only sold mine due to lack of HDMI.Don't not forget now the terribly unfortunate venture of one English manufacturer ( you all know WHO) noticeably ventured in the AV market once. With a ' no need for centre channel ' extra 2 channel (add-on amp) to make a 4 channel AV set up. So as to allegedly not taint ' one's existing so called -revered 2 channel stereo amp' from the same stable.
What an expensive, laughable quickly disappeared 'booby -prize' ( on the Lay -by principle???!!!!
Well, your comment does provoke the need for a certain type of unfortunate question.
Question: "And since when, did the UK market noted today for its ever increasing reductive 'piddling, flea bite' amounts of HI FI sound equipment (either in sheer unit volume output and /or for different manufacturing brands) matter / become the centre of attention in the audio universe of the World???!!
Music freak
pfm Member
Might I further add to my previous comments, where - fay spook - touched upon the subject of the number f top range amps ,available around the World. If one really searches the web and scans the international web , for such amps - one is struck by one point.
Even the biggest AV HI FI manufacturers that seem to be ubiquitous with various models & units to suit every price range.....do not necessarily release all of their manufactured range "everywhere". Whether it is just stereo or full multi channel AV's.
It need not be said.....would a Hi Fi manufacturer really promote certain steady performing 'brute-powered' equipment , when such equipment is meant to feed a group of 2 or more big hungry-power floor standers : in countries .....where pokey sized bed-sit housing accommodation is the norm??!!
I happen to live in the Asia- Pacific region.... a geographical region also where, 'pretentious elitist boutique' hi fi vendors -trying to drive 'hard ticket prices' more often than not- after a while , as businesses 'hit the wall' .
I know that I would not be facing any difficulty of choice for a top range AV amp whatsoever. Each year's so called 'run-out models' , no matter whether - regarding top to bottom price tiers from the biggest names in AV ( all brand-spanking new!) can most likely become available for as low as near 1/2 price. with full warranty, thrown in.
Presently , I have a perfectly satisfying hefty ,powerful 7 /2 AV amp amongst my home stable of amps :. With that particular amp , I do also demand and get the same quality of direct 2 channel stereo as I would expect out of any non AV amp. But , if I needed to go out & buy again, soon - ... a 9/2 AV amp with Dolby Atmos & DTS -X coding on board ...and Blu rays when it is fully established to that standard would be an excellent choice.
As it is , 7/1 Blu Ray discs -( not just of Hollywood movies but serious Classical and staged Opera performances) can show that they are another step up the line for sonic realism.
Sometimes I have to resist being kept tempted to 'hit the computer - buy button ' and add to my Hi Fi 'big toys' collection with the absolute 'steals on offer'. Happily living in a region area -where then, some such dealers I know and deal with, provide free transport of the said goods /AND.... also personally come deliver the goods to you themselves, right at your door!
Never has there been a time when in Hi Fi, "so much quality " has been offered for dollars , so few.............
And then , I read of the terrible hassles, some pink fish media contributors face, choosing and getting equipment safely on their home shelves!
Even the biggest AV HI FI manufacturers that seem to be ubiquitous with various models & units to suit every price range.....do not necessarily release all of their manufactured range "everywhere". Whether it is just stereo or full multi channel AV's.
It need not be said.....would a Hi Fi manufacturer really promote certain steady performing 'brute-powered' equipment , when such equipment is meant to feed a group of 2 or more big hungry-power floor standers : in countries .....where pokey sized bed-sit housing accommodation is the norm??!!
I happen to live in the Asia- Pacific region.... a geographical region also where, 'pretentious elitist boutique' hi fi vendors -trying to drive 'hard ticket prices' more often than not- after a while , as businesses 'hit the wall' .
I know that I would not be facing any difficulty of choice for a top range AV amp whatsoever. Each year's so called 'run-out models' , no matter whether - regarding top to bottom price tiers from the biggest names in AV ( all brand-spanking new!) can most likely become available for as low as near 1/2 price. with full warranty, thrown in.
Presently , I have a perfectly satisfying hefty ,powerful 7 /2 AV amp amongst my home stable of amps :. With that particular amp , I do also demand and get the same quality of direct 2 channel stereo as I would expect out of any non AV amp. But , if I needed to go out & buy again, soon - ... a 9/2 AV amp with Dolby Atmos & DTS -X coding on board ...and Blu rays when it is fully established to that standard would be an excellent choice.
As it is , 7/1 Blu Ray discs -( not just of Hollywood movies but serious Classical and staged Opera performances) can show that they are another step up the line for sonic realism.
Sometimes I have to resist being kept tempted to 'hit the computer - buy button ' and add to my Hi Fi 'big toys' collection with the absolute 'steals on offer'. Happily living in a region area -where then, some such dealers I know and deal with, provide free transport of the said goods /AND.... also personally come deliver the goods to you themselves, right at your door!
Never has there been a time when in Hi Fi, "so much quality " has been offered for dollars , so few.............
And then , I read of the terrible hassles, some pink fish media contributors face, choosing and getting equipment safely on their home shelves!
Suffolk Tony
Aim low, achieve your goals, avoid disappointment.
I confess I've been tempted to take advantage of the Dolby Atmos system which I have in my Denon A/V amp, but I can't see SWMBO putting up with all those extra speakers!