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Is the recession now hitting hifi buyers

G

Guest432

Guest
I've noticed in the last few weeks that as a compulsive box swapper it's now getting harder and harder to sell items. Also seems to be an issue on the wam with a few people commenting there. Even the normally stable naim pricing is taking a battering with some great deals on ebay and the wam at the moment. I would assume that peoples free cash is now beginning to dry up or there are some serious changes in direction going on.

Just recently a PFM'er was unable to sell his Sugden A21SE for £1200, these normally get snapped up quickly. There is an A21A2 that has been relisted twice on ebay now and had a starting price of £700

A naim supernait on ebay seems to be going for around £1200 - 1500 where 6 months ago it would get closer to £2000
 
The bubble has burst? Some VERY second hand equipment was selling for crazy money considering how much repair is likely to be needed
 
In any free market prices are set by supply and demand.

Traditional HiFi separates, are now 'legacy systems' beloved of the 'baby-boomer' generation. The everyday users of such devices are declining in number, leaving a few collectors to seek out their fancies. The pool of equipment remains available whilst the buyers reduce in number.

These are not recessionary factors, but more akin to changes in technology and social styles.

To survive, manufacturers must continually sell new product, and that may only be achieved by satisfying the demands of the market which evolves. Often that means big changes in the desirability of second-hand equipment over time.

JC
 
JC,

If you add a DAC to a legacy separate system it can play all of your tunes, i and other. :)

Joe
 
If you are noticing the changes only over a matter of weeks then the dying out of baby boomers or the recession hitting buyers is unlikely. Nothing has changed that fast, in particular the recession is no big deal for an individual if they are in work. I'd put a more prosaic possible explanation, involving something that has changed - the weather. Summer's here and people are looking forward to holidays and spending time outdoors. The hifi may be less of a priority, and in any case you needn't think you are spending money on that until the holiday's paid for. I'm not having you moping about indoors either when the weather's good and the garden needs tidying up.

I predict a return to normal when the kids are back at school and the dark nights arrive.
 
I slightly disagree with Steve, however I think this slow down in sales and confidence dates back a few years to shortly after the recession started. 5 years ago I was a prolific box swopper, because you could take a punt on stuff and know if you did not like it, it was easily moved on. Now its not so easy as people pull in the purse strings and watch the pennies. This means I no longer take a punt, but consider purchases very carefully before buying.
 
stevec67 said:
I predict a return to normal . . .
Click to expand...


Hmmmm, - what's 'normal' ?

Progress progresses, and evolution evolves, the market is very infrequently static, and follows the whims of the vanguard.

Joe P has pointed out that adding a DAC to an existing separates system enables the use of digital sources . . .

But, there are many who simply do not desire the multi-box clutter of legacy kit, particularly those who have not grown up with it.

The aspirational devices of many music enthusiasts today are a mobile phone, tablet computer, broadband internet, and a 'HiFi' all in one box to produce high sound quality reproduction in a compact form that suits their lifestyle and accommodation.

Not, a stack of legacy HiFi.

That's the 'state of the market' which determines values.

JC
 
CD players are already pretty useless and therefore 'worthless' devices, due to the fact that CDs are merely plastic containers for a digital file. Now we have much better ways to store digital files, and much more convenient ways to replay their content.

Soon, it may be that separate DACs will be just as redundant (and therefore 'wothless'), since all reproduction equipment will have built-in DACs.

After all, what's the utility (and therefore 'worth') of loudspeakers which don't have built-in digital input, DAC, amp, and remote control ?

JC
 
jcbrum said:
Hmmmm, - what's 'normal' ?

Progress progresses, and evolution evolves, the market is very infrequently static, and follows the whims of the vanguard.

Joe P has pointed out that adding a DAC to an existing separates system enables the use of digital sources . . .

But, there are many who simply do not desire the multi-box clutter of legacy kit, particularly those who have not grown up with it.

The aspirational devices of many music enthusiasts today are a mobile phone, tablet computer, broadband internet, and a 'HiFi' all in one box to produce high sound quality reproduction in a compact form that suits their lifestyle and accommodation.

Not, a stack of legacy HiFi.

That's the 'state of the market' which determines values.

JC
Click to expand...

I grew up with lotsa boxes.

I now only have a Klimax DSM.

My living environment is greatly improved by the change.

Chris
 
jcbrum said:
Hmmmm, - what's 'normal' ?

Progress progresses, and evolution evolves, the market is very infrequently static, and follows the whims of the vanguard.

Joe P has pointed out that adding a DAC to an existing separates system enables the use of digital sources . . .

But, there are many who simply do not desire the multi-box clutter of legacy kit, particularly those who have not grown up with it.

The aspirational devices of many music enthusiasts today are a mobile phone, tablet computer, broadband internet, and a 'HiFi' all in one box to produce high sound quality reproduction in a compact form that suits their lifestyle and accommodation.

Not, a stack of legacy HiFi.

That's the 'state of the market' which determines values.

JC
Click to expand...

There is nothing new about the idea of a one-box solution in place of separates and these two options will continue to coexist in the market place for a long time to come.

In the 1970s we had "music centres" that lay flat on your sideboard and included a tuner on the front and a cassette deck alongside a turntable on the top with a clear plastic lid. Some of these even came with Garrard turntables. They were basically shit although some were better than others.

In the 80s the one-box solution was made to look like a stack of separates and may have included some sort of furniture housing to store records and cassettes. These were often worse than the 70s Music Centre.

The 90s continued the theme with the midi system that, again, looked like a stack of separates but wasn't. It was usually black and had curvy lines. Some were better than others but on the whole they were pretty shit.

What JCBrum is effectively trying to sell us is a modern version of the above. The concept is hardly new and will exist alongside proper hi-fi until the next lifestyle compromise comes along and it takes its turn to end up as landfill.

I am reminded of Aiwa. In the 80s they made excellent tape decks that were almost as good as those by Nakamichi but during the 90s they went downmarket and produced only low-end midi and mini systems, presumably because the golden age of hi-fi had passed and they no longer wanted to produce "legacy" separates.

The slackness at the moment is largely seasonal but hi-fi as a whole including the compact compromised lifestyle market is competing with a greater variety of home entertainment products (game machines, big flat tellies, home cinema, tablets, laptops, smartphones etc) at a time when disposable incomes are being squeezed.
 
I think it's slowed down to be honest as I've noticed items that would have been snapped up a few years ago and now, they just aren't selling as quick. I do believe it's a symptom of the current recessionary times. I don't know anyone that is doing well and/or maintaining their usual lifestyle.

Everyone I know thinks more about their outgoings for everything from weekly shopping, looking for deals, not going out as often, having less take-aways etc. to even not attending parties and functions if it involves a long journey or a stay over due to the spending involved.

I'd like to think things will return to 'normal' but I'm not 100% certain of this as this negative period has lasted for a long while rather than a short, sharp shock as we have experienced before. People that have really had to cut back on the little luxuries they used to have are telling me that they have learnt from this experience and are saying they are unlikely to return to their 'frivolous' ways as they are now comfortable living as they do within their means.
 
Steven Toy said:
What JCBrum is effectively trying to sell us . . .
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I'm not trying to sell anything, Steven, and have no incentive to do so.

I was merely commenting on the topic under discussion.

JC
 
jcbrum said:
I'm not trying to sell anything, Steven, and have no incentive to do so.

I was merely commenting on the topic under discussion.

JC
Click to expand...

Stephen will find the whole concept of a "one box" solution anathema. It strikes at the very core of his Hi Fi philosophy.

Chris
 
I for one am looking over my shoulder as far as money is concerned. I lost out earlier this week when a client went bankrupt owing me money. This one incident isn't going to cripple me but it happened to me 18 months ago too and that time I lost money and assets and that one hit very hard.

If this keeps happening to me I will end up in the crap. Even though I'm not exactly struggling at the moment I don't know what the future holds so I'm holding on to my money more.
I'm also working to expand my career options, it's not a comfortable time at the moment, things can change very quickly.
 
linnfomaniac83 said:
. . . things can change very quickly.
Click to expand...

If one looks back over the last five years or so, in hifi, things have changed very quickly, certainly on the technology front, regarding digital sources and streaming.

New HiFi products, in terms of current production, do have an effect on the second-hand market.

JC
 
Given that recessions overwhelmingly hit the poor and those in the bottom 25% of the income bracket , I very much doubt it .
 
My comments were based on the observation that this had happened or at least been observed "in the last few weeks". I'd fully agree that markets shift and legacy hifi will shift with it, overall in a downwards direction. This isn't a swift process though, and for sure one-box solutions are coming along but they always have and will. Today's iPod and dock customer was the 90s silver brick customer, the 80s midi system, the 70s music centre. The multi-box hifi buyer is a different animal. Yes, he's in decline - in the 70s every bloke had a hifi, by the 90s he was into big TVs, a Sky subscription, and now he has a dock. What I don't see taking off (yet) though is the game changer product. For me the game changer product is a £200 cube that does it all - music on HDD, DAB and internet radio, 2 little speakers. Crucially (and here is the rub) it needs to be a no-skill product. We can all set up computer audio, I'm doing it myself but wow, what a learning experience (or chore) it is. What will be a game changer is such a system that my Mum can set up, like she can an iPod dock, but which unlike a dock offers modest hifi quality. Basically a cheap Brennan.
 
Gents.....


IT'S THE SUMMER.

Hifi always slows down massively between May and September in the 2nd hand channels.
 
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