Is Kate Bush "Prog"?

[Pure_Carbon]

So, last night played Dark Side of the Moon, was still in a vinyl mood, so pulled out Hounds of Love.
Not such a leap .
Whilst Side 1 has the hits, S2 is much more "out there" , sequencers, tape loops, soundscapes etc.
Apart from "Lionheart", she's tried the push the bounderies musically and sonically, moving forward.
Think I'll fire up "Sensual World" later.

 

[gavreid]

I don't think so. Even the first album is perhaps more what would be called 'art rock' today.

 

[Tony L]

Prog is a remarkably vague term that can be applied pretty much at will IMO. For the sake of this thread I will happily argue Magazine’s Secondhand Daylight is prog because, well, just listen to it!

 

[Pure_Carbon]

Prog is a remarkably vague term that can be applied pretty much at will IMO. For the sake of this thread I will happily argue Magazine’s Secondhand Daylight is prog because, well, just listen to it!

Just put it into my Qb favourites.
Don't know it, but open to new music !

 

[tiggers]

As Tony says prog is a very vague term and one which I tend to categorise as rock music where one needs time and exposure to fully appreciate the artistry involved. In that sense Kate Bush's slightly more out there compositions such as HoL Side 2, The Dreaming and 50 Words For Snow probably do comply... when I bought HoL I loved side 1 and side 2 not so much, now I'm completely the other way round... prog... maybe?

 

[pfpc]

No

 

[Tony L]

As Tony says prog is a very vague term and one which I tend to categorise as rock music where one needs time and exposure to fully appreciate the artistry involved.

The prog stereotypes e.g. Tarkus, Foxtrot, Close To The Edge, Tales From Topographic Oceans are all at one side of the bell-curve IMO; side-long songs, classical music influence etc. As soon as one adds say In The Court Of The Crimson King, DSOTM, Selling England By The Pound and a lot of the Canterbury stuff we are into pretty traditional song-based rock with some stretched-out instrumental passages. Once here I’d have no issue adding in some Kate Bush, even Bowie, or, as I did, Magazine. Also prog is often use as a blanket term to encompass stuff as diverse as Nucleus, Can, Soft Machine, Tangerine Dream, Amon Düül II etc, plus all that Vertigo stuff, and once we are there we may as well argue In A Silent Way or Bitches Brew are prog albums.

I’d also argue concept albums aren’t necessarily prog, that is an unrelated term and shouldn’t confuse any discussion, e.g. In The Wee Small Hours, Sgt Pepper’s Tommy, What’s Going On, The Wall, Chairs Missing and To Pimp A Butterfly are all concept albums. As is every opera.

PS Radiohead are obviously a prog band! I’d argue Flaming Lips were too, and Sigur Ros! What about Squarepusher?!

 

[Big Tabs]

Art Rock, Pop Rock, Prog Rock, Experimental.
Singer, Songwriter, Musician, Artist.

I don’t get hung up on the terminology

 

[gavreid]

Maybe you can argue that Art Rock is a small subset of prog in that sense Tony but it would be at the end of the spectrum in my view. Pretty well anything that wasn't pop or blues was prog. KB is more at the pop interface, I think...

 

[Pure_Carbon]

When Roxy Music first emerged, they were called Art Rock.
Would I put them into the Prog camp though ?
Like you said, Prog is a very vague term indeed.
In the 70s I was very much in the rigid confines of what we called Prog, Genesis, Yes, ELP , Crimson, Floyd , Gentle Giant.
Now it's more fluid.

 

[ff1d1l]

Quite a lot of her output, yes. Including Wuthering Heights.

 

[paulfromcamden]

and once we are there we may as well argue In A Silent Way or Bitches Brew are prog albums.

I think longform improvisation (even in an edited down and constructed form) is a little different to Prog which I've always taken as being more concerned with structures and concepts.

Though I realise this all gets a bit more blurred when we head towards Krautrock, Berlin School and stuff like Gong and Ozrics...

 

[sq225917]

It's not like prog defines something as tightly as say the term Haiku does. It's loose and fluid in definition.

 

[paulfromcamden]

It's loose and fluid in definition.

And that's just the capes.

 

[Tony L]

Though I realise this all gets a bit more blurred when we head towards Krautrock, Berlin School and stuff like Gong and Ozrics...

It does with the Canterbury stuff like Caravan, Camel, Khan, Egg etc too. That has a very jazz/fusion feel to my ears, though is routinely classed as prog.

As an example to my ears this, once it gets going, is not far away from Mahavishnu Orchestra, Santana etc, and even some Miles or Herbie Hancock:

 

[paulfromcamden]

Yes good point Tony - I'd forgotten about the Canterbury scene. Feels like there's a degree of Prog-iness to some 70s British jazz (rock) too. I guess it's all connected.

 

[Finnegan]

Prog is a remarkably vague term that can be applied pretty much at will IMO. For the sake of this thread I will happily argue Magazine’s Secondhand Daylight is prog because, well, just listen to it!

Indeed, ditto Real Life.

You’ve put your finger on it. If ‘prog’ is defined by concept albums and side long tracks frequently characterised by lyrics inspired by Greek or Hindu mythology and extended instrumental extemporisation, and/or orchestrated to resemble symphonic music then no, Kate Bush isn’t prog. If the wider (and original) definition is employed, then yes, her music is original and idiosyncratic, chafes at genres and heads out in a new direction- like Radiohead or Magazine- and so her music can be bracketed as prog, although it does her no favours to be lumped in with dross like ELP or Greenslade.

 

[Tony L]

Yes good point Tony - I'd forgotten about the Canterbury scene. Feels like there's a degree of Prog-iness to some 70s British jazz (rock) too. I guess it's all connected.

Yes, especially Ian Carr’s Nucleus, who were signed to prog/rock label Vertigo.

PS I’d recommend this Nucleus box set as an essential purchase. It is nicely mastered, complete, and contains wonderful albums that would cost absolute £LOLprice to find in nice condition on original Vertigo vinyl. It really is good stuff and straddles any gap that lies between Bitches Brew and what is more widely seen as prog. A fascinating band. This is a CD box that once it is deleted will rocket in price!

 

[Finnegan]

Yes, especially Ian Carr’s Nucleus, who were signed to prog/rock label Vertigo.

I’d recommend this Nucleus box set as an essential purchase. It is nicely mastered, complete, and contains wonderful albums that would cost £LOLprice to find in nice condition on original Vertigo vinyl. It really is good stuff and straddles any gap that lies between Bitches Brew and what is more widely seen as prog. A fascinating band.

I recommend a recent Composer Of The Week series, focusing on Karl Jenkins.

Composer of the Week - Karl Jenkins - In the Beginning - BBC Sounds

Donald Macleod talks to multi-instrumentalist and composer Sir Karl Jenkins.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[zeon]

I wonder if Kates at home now thinking " Oooh I'm not prog Rock ". What's the chance of her reading this !
Unless she s a huge audiophile of course....