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Is it worth getting a newer DAC?

P

pbirkett

pfm Member
So I've currently got an old Beresford TC-7510 DAC, about 8 years old now, not exactly anything high end I don't imagine at its original price of £150ish.

I recently bought a pair of headphones that seem to perform way beyond what you would expect for the price - Yamaha HPH-MT220. These are closed headphones that have a very lively, detailed and detailed sound.

The Beresford has a headphone out, but even comparing it with a £50 Behringer headphone amp, you can notice a definite improvement (from Beresford analogue outs).

It's made me wonder whether progress has been made with DACs too in order to warrant an upgrade.

I was looking at an Acoustic Research UA1 originally, but quite a lot of money and I can't really audition it (I could use 14-day rule). I've also looked into the NAD D1050 and newer Beresford DACs.

Does anyone think I can expect a worthwhile improvement for this kind of money? I've had mixed thoughts on DAC and headphone amp upgrades in the past, some of them not seeming to make a big difference for the expenditure.
 
Hard to say. I can't find anything I'd rather have than a linn numerik, for sensible money anyway (although the numerik was £1500 new). And the numerik was discontinued 15 years ago... So have DACs improved much?
Technically yes, in terms of supported resolution... But in terms of actual sound quality, not massively, bearing in mind that 16/44 can sound very, very good indeed.

Do I think a new £1500 DAC would better a numerik, yes almost certainly... But a £300 DAC, no chance. I have tried a good few sub £500 models and none of them beat the numerik for me.

Would a new £150 DAC beat your beresford? Not massively if I'm honest. Best you can do is to try a few.
 
Beresford's DAC are very good and great value for money. You will notice a huge leap in both the DAC's quality and the headphone amp in newer Beresford's DACs, either the Bushmaster II or the newer Caiman II. You have a money back trial period so my advice is to try and return if not satisfied. You'll be very hard pushed to get anything for that price that betters it, even second hand.
 
Guess it might be worth trying one of the Beresford's, how do they differ though, they are similar price for the Bushmaster and Caiman (the latter being more expensive, yet nobody seems to come to a consensus as to which is better).
 
Those original Beresford dacs were cheap and cheerful and not that good to be honest, the latest Caiman 2 is pretty decent for the money and you can return it if you don't like it.
How do you intend on using it via a computer or with a cdp?
Have a look on AoS they have a Beresford love in over there.
 
I am using it with a computer.

I'll have a look on there but I'm always a little skeptical of places where there seems to be disproportionate amount of bias towards a certain product.

However, I don't seem to see many bad things written about them. I was originally interested in the Acoustic Research UA1 and it seems to get some decent reviews but not really any more so than a Beresford for half of the price, but it seems to be based on a very expensive portable player they also produce. Some say its quite a coloured but fun sound. Fun is what I am after as much of as I can for a sensible budget.
 
They are just a touch biased:rolleyes: but the latest Caiman does at last have a decent usb input for computer use.
 
That would seem to make it a logical choice, but I have got an external USB soundcard with an optical out so its not a deal breaker not having the USB input on the DAC (but it would be neater).
 
I have a virtually brand new HRT Music Streamer III in the classifieds for £140.00 including delivery.
This is a great USB DAC that punches way above its price point.
 
The newer Beresford DACs are much better than the old ones indeed.

At this budget these DACs are difficult to beat.
 
Thanks, that looks good but no headphone amp by the looks of things, and if I bought that I'd want something better than I have now, and that will spiral quickly.... I think I am going to give the Caiman II a punt.
 
So, I got the Caiman II. It seems like a good buy for the money. Looks good, has some nice features, and seems nicely musical and detailed, surprisingly good sound for just over £200 I have to say. I'm not going to get carried away though like some reviews, but I'm certainly not disappointed.

Only slight disappointment is it can't use the headphone amp on the Beresford and output to the line out simultaneously, like my old Beresford could, and frankly the Behringer isn't quite as good so it'll be a downgrade for me when I need to share with my girlfriend as I'll have to plug into the Behringer. Stanley says most DAC/headphone amps behave this way and certainly I've learnt the NAD D1050 does the same thing. I think its a shame these amps don't have a pair of headphone outs, so you could share more easily, not everyone lives in a big detatched house and has the benefit of being able to pump a pair of big speakers, and most people don't live alone, it seems a bit anti-social.
 
pbirkett said:
So, I got the Caiman II. It seems like a good buy for the money. Looks good, has some nice features, and seems nicely musical and detailed, surprisingly good sound for just over £200 I have to say. I'm not going to get carried away though like some reviews, but I'm certainly not disappointed.
Click to expand...

Good choice IMHO, give it some 'run-in' time and it will improve...:)

Out of interest did yours come with the 'updated' firmware? I updated mine only recently, as I bought one of the earlier models...
 
Yes it has the latest firmware. I am actually starting to like it even more now. I've never heard some of my music sound like this. I am someone who has in the past been quite disappointed with some DACs and headphone amps but this is certainly a very noticeable upgrade on what I've had in the past. Its a very fun, detailed and musical sound.
 
I do have to give a shout out to the headphones too as they really play their part, the Yamaha HPH-MT220 are an absolute bargain, best closed headphones I've ever had by some distance (and I've had a lot as anyone who knows me will testify!) and anyone who likes their music served up in a lively, detailed and dynamic fashion would do well to put them on their short list. They have replaced a pair of Beyer DT250s which they absolutely destroy to my ears.
 
pbirkett said:
Yes it has the latest firmware. I am actually starting to like it even more now. I've never heard some of my music sound like this. I am someone who has in the past been quite disappointed with some DACs and headphone amps but this is certainly a very noticeable upgrade on what I've had in the past. Its a very fun, detailed and musical sound.
Click to expand...

I think you mentioned earlier about wanting to listen to both headphones and speakers...

One option is, down the line, to add the capella HP amp, which is powered from the caiman, and stick a 'Y' RCA splitter in the middle, so the caiman is feeding your main amp, and capella in parallel...I have some AKG 702s and the capella really drives these well...:)
 
Thats not a bad idea, would one of these Capella headphone amps outperform the built in socket on the Caiman? Its not for speakers, its to pump sound to another external headphone amp for when the girlfriend wants to listen and I would rather not use a headphone splitter for obvious reasons!
 
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