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Is it time for speed limiters on cars?

tiggers said:
I lived there (again) for just under 2 years 2016-2018 and believe you me it happens and rather a lot... however, as I said, a lot of it is a reaction against the piss poor driving standards exhibited by so many and the crap infrastructure provided for cycling (even if, ironically, it is better than most of the rest of the country).

Interesting you mention LTNs... they have been an unmitigated disaster for people living on the roads all the traffic has now been forced onto... I'd have far more support for a council that just banned motorised vehicles completely provided they enabled proper and genuinely useful cost effective alternatives for people and yes, it would require some new thinking, but isn't that what we are supposed to do... make progress, innovate etc.
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Problem with LTNs is that it is ultimately quite binary in terms of reaction, I don’t think they are an unmitigated disaster but they cannot work without behavioural change. I’m not sure I’d even have a car if I lived in London. It’s not the cyclists who damage & remove the planters & barriers at LTNs;) It’s a very difficult issue though.

We tend to drive first & think later, making an awful lot of unnecessary short journeys. Used to do it myself, try not to now.
 
^ I'll call your 1 angry cyclist clip, and raise you - well - a whole bunch more, from this self-appointed idiot..

 
-alan- said:
^ I'll call your 1 angry cyclist clip, and raise you - well - a whole bunch more, from this self-appointed idiot..

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The person in question is a nurse who cycles to work on an e-bike. Your clip is completely irrelevant & insulting to people who’s lives are regularly put at risk.
 
A clip demonstrating that cyclists can - and often do - act in ways which are irresponsible and dangerous to other road-users is somehow insulting and also irrelevant ?

How so ?
 
We will never achieve a good balance. The reality is that if we designed car and cycle roads they would be totally segregated, the speed and weight of the cars vs bikes makes mixing the two crazy. What we are doing is to try to mix very different vehicle characteristics. It’ll never work out perfectly.
 
clivem2 said:
We will never achieve a good balance. The reality is that if we designed car and cycle roads they would be totally segregated, the speed and weight of the cars vs bikes makes mixing the two crazy. What we are doing is to try to mix very different vehicle characteristics. It’ll never work out perfectly.
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This has been largely achieved in Holland - obviously it's not perfect but shows what can be done if the will is there.
 
-alan- said:
A clip demonstrating that cyclists can - and often do - act in ways which are irresponsible and dangerous to other road-users is somehow insulting and also irrelevant ?

How so ?
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For a start, although the cyclist is obviously a knob he isn't putting anyone else's life at risk - unlike the driver in the clip posted by @Woodface
 
vince rocker said:
This has been largely achieved in Holland - obviously it's not perfect but shows what can be done if the will is there.
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I agree though there are many more cyclists, possibly as a result of their better infrastructure. The point I had in mind was that if we don’t have suitable segregation then there will be conflict. In Holland there’s not much conflict between cyclists and cars but cyclists and pedestrians is big issue.

I know it’s idealist but if we started from a clean sheet there’s no way we’d mix cars, bikes and horses the way we do.
 
clivem2 said:
I agree though there are many more cyclists, possibly as a result of their better infrastructure. The point I had in mind was that if we don’t have suitable segregation then there will be conflict. In Holland there’s not much conflict between cyclists and cars but cyclists and pedestrians is big issue.

I know it’s idealist but if we started from a clean sheet there’s no way we’d mix cars, bikes and horses the way we do.
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Holland have presumed liability, maybe their drivers are more tolerant?

I do think we should ban cars in certain areas of cities, maybe employ some kind of zonal system. It really can be done & has been successfully in many cities across Europe. It takes political will & we all need to grow up;)
 
-alan- said:
A clip demonstrating that cyclists can - and often do - act in ways which are irresponsible and dangerous to other road-users is somehow insulting and also irrelevant ?

How so ?
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Surely you didn’t expect anything different from the type of cyclist posting here? I had one such knacker riding his bike straight toward me on my side of the road just recently, I mentioned it here to a deafening silence from the type who support cyclists ignoring the rules of the road.
 
Also worth noting that cycles, horses, pedestrians were here first. It’s amazing how quickly private vehicles have assumed primacy.
 
Woodface said:
Holland have presumed liability, maybe their drivers are more tolerant?

I do think we should ban cars in certain areas of cities, maybe employ some kind of zonal system. It really can be done & has been successfully in many cities across Europe. It takes political will & we all need to grow up;)
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Yes, some need to grow up. It would be inconsiderate to many people to ban cars from cities.
 
vince rocker said:
This has been largely achieved in Holland - obviously it's not perfect but shows what can be done if the will is there.
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Yes, they are good at it. However, in some places they overdid, I think. For example, sometimes you have to give way a cyclist at exit from roundabout. First of all it is against common practice on roundabouts, secondly, it is not easy to oversee cyclist path, especially if you are in truck, maybe from car it is not big trouble. Why they choose do it, do not understand.
 
I think just the amount of cars on our roads limits speed naturally. I live in the toe end of the sock of cornwall and it took me the same time to get a third of the way to Plymouth as it took for the other two thirds.
I suffer particularly as I had nothing but motorbikes until my mid thirties so I’ve never really got used to the limitations of a car. My new wheels allow explosive passing of cyclists…
 
Woodface said:
Holland have presumed liability, maybe their drivers are more tolerant?

I do think we should ban cars in certain areas of cities, maybe employ some kind of zonal system. It really can be done & has been successfully in many cities across Europe. It takes political will & we all need to grow up;)
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It’s not about tolerance, it’s segregation. They so often don’t share the same space. Oh yes, the pedestrians hate the cyclists…it’s a hierarchy. The victims become the culprits.

An example of cyclists vs pedestrians is when I was hit by a cyclist running a red light when I was crossing on green as a pedestrian. From my NHS medical record:

Quadriceps tendon rupture

Significance: Significant

This was bilateral, ie both legs. It was 4 months before I could walk properly. I still have issues 6 years later. As I said, it’s a hierarchy. Cars are dangerous for cyclists and cyclists are dangerous for pedestrians. Of course cars are the bigger threat but don’t try to tell me cyclists are blameless. I went through f@@king agony.
 
Why the need for speed limiters on cars? Legally, you can't drive more than x, so if you respect that - you should be fine. Also, driving speed, whilst a major factor in lethal accidents, is certainly not the only factor. Age, experience, anticipation, road planning, etc.... are also contributing factors.
London is becoming a circus of cycle lanes. London was never planned historically, unlike other major European Cities, to be Cycle friendly. Also, in Europe cyclists ride bikes recreationally, in London people race on bikes. It's so bizarre that it is borderline hideous.
 
Woodface said:
Also worth noting that cycles, horses, pedestrians were here first. It’s amazing how quickly private vehicles have assumed primacy.
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They didn't bother to put down tarmac for cycles, horses or pedestrians though, did they?
 
Yank said:
They didn't bother to put down tarmac for cycles, horses or pedestrians though, did they?
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Well, tar was a relatively recent invention but our current roads are based upon a system by Jack Macadam. We still use Roman roads so you point is pretty wide of the mark. We still use gravel roads in parts of the Peak District.
 
gints said:
Yes, they are good at it. However, in some places they overdid, I think. For example, sometimes you have to give way a cyclist at exit from roundabout. First of all it is against common practice on roundabouts, secondly, it is not easy to oversee cyclist path, especially if you are in truck, maybe from car it is not big trouble. Why they choose do it, do not understand.
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They are called Dutch roundabouts.
 
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