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Is a pro-audio sub a bad idea for music?

stackowax

stackowax

pfm Member
I have a chance to purchase (used) a JBL 4645C subwoofer for not much money (basically for the cost of shipping). I've been interested in experimenting with subwoofers but I have contradictory goals/inclinations (a) I'm disinclined to pay a lot of money for them and b) but, if I were to get a sub, I want it to be very high quality.

I'm not at all familiar with JBL pro-line (or any pro-line) but some people speak very highly of this particular sub (mostly in the context of home theatre). It is a beast (63 kg, 1010 mm x 674 mm x 450 mm) and I gather I would have to buy a very high powered amplifier (something like a Crown XTI-2002) to drive it, so that will raise the cost (although if a Naim 250 would drive it, that would make this sub a huge bargain).

I suppose, ultimately, the question is: is something like this strictly for home theatre, shall we say, "theatrics" or could it also work well with music?
 
They’re generally optimised for reinforcing upper bass (50-120HZ) rather than sub bass. They will reproduce sub bass but it will be rolled off. You could certainly try it but I think you’ll need a proper controller to make it work properly. You probably won’t need as much power as you’d expect to drive it, they’re more sensitive than domestic kit so if you’re not trying to fill a theatre, you won’t need tons of power, an amp with decent current capability is a good idea though.
 
Thanks. So, what kind of main speaker would it work ideally with? Something like a "mini-monitor" (to avoid doubling of frequencies in the 50-120 hz range)? Or do most speakers need reinforcement in the 50-120hz region anyway.
 
I would go for something like the budget REL that was sold under the brand name Tsunami. They will be on sale for peanuts, have a good amp in-built and decent set up via a remote for volume and roll-off point. They work well on both music and AV (you can store 4 settings). This will allow you to cheaply experiment.

Nic P
 
I've owned high quality 4 subwoofers over the years, from Audio Physic, Sonus Faber, Rel and most recently a few weeks ago from JL Audio. All sounded awful for music and were sold after a short while.

Integrating a subwoofer takes a huge amount of work to get right, and these days seems to require special software and active crossovers. Even so, it will do more than add some bass - it will change the character of your system.

The JL Audio E110 sub which I tried is very highly regarded as one of the best currently available. Even with it set at the lowest possible volume - a notch above zero - and crossing over with my main speakers as low as was reasonable, it still completely changed the sound of the system into something very different and something I did not like. Remember, by adding a sub you are adding a new speaker and a new amplifier and it is not the same as just extending the bass of your current speakers. I have read of many people who love subs and who wouldn't live without them. You may be one of them. Personally, I achieved my goal by buying speakers that went a bit deeper - small floorstanders instead of my previous standmounts - and now feel I have all the bass I need to be satisfying, plus I have preserved the sound of my system, which I happen to like.

So my view is that subs are definitely only for home theatre. But if you can try one cheaply and sell it on if you don't like it at no cost, it might be worth a shot.
 
RossB said:
I've owned high quality 4 subwoofers over the years, from Audio Physic, Sonus Faber, Rel and most recently a few weeks ago from JL Audio. All sounded awful for music and were sold after a short while.
Integrating a subwoofer takes a huge amount of work to get right, and these days seems to require special software and active crossovers. Even so, it will do more than add some bass - it will change the character of your system.....................So my view is that subs are definitely only for home theatre. But if you can try one cheaply and sell it on if you don't like it at no cost, it might be worth a shot.
Click to expand...

I agree with the first part of this, integrating a sub can be a nightmare - but I disagree with the second part as if you can get it right, it is superb, particularly on music with deep organ. I too have owned 4 or 5 sub-woofers over the years, primarily for 5.1 action films. Until about 9 months ago all attempts to integrate for music ended in dismal failure with generally too much bass at the cross-over level. However I approached it in a different way on this occasion by disconnecting my main speakers (ProAc Tablette Anniversary) & playing my test music only through the sub (15 year old ATC designed Castle Classic Sub) starting with minimum cross-over & lowest level. What surprised me as I increased the cross-over was how little deep bass there was before higher frequencies became audible, so I reduced the cross-over to cut-out all but the lowest frequencies from the sub. The situation was similar with the level & again I eventually settled on a very low level, but on music with deep organ the end result was as much a sense of feeling the bass as hearing it. The only inputs on the Castle are 2 phono sockets for left & right channels connected to the pre-outs on my Rega Elicit-R integrated amp but it is the Castles' internal power amp which does the driving. Having got the music right, I then played my standard test track for film - the launch scene of Apollo 11, half expecting it to be half-hearted but was pleasantly surprised to find it was just as good as playing through the .1 channel of the AV system, so I was a very happy chappy & have not had to adjust any of the settings since.

I am not familiar with the JBL 4645C but from a google search it looks a real beast & probably over the top for a domestic system. But if it is going to cost only the price of postage then little harm in giving it a go & you never know it may be perfect - better to have something with power in reserve than too little unless the minimum level is too high for in the home.
 
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Ross--I'm already biased in the direction you describe (I suppose that's another reason I'm inclined not to spend that much money on this adventure). I suppose truly musical low bass is the holy grail of high end audio. FWIW, the subwoofer system I'm most intrigued by is something called "The Swarm" (basically 4 subwoofers plus an amp). There are theoretical reasons why something like the Swarm should be better than one or even two subwoofers but it isn't cheap (although not outrageous by today's standards) and it does make for a more complicated set-up. Or at least more boxes of speakers. I'm a bit of a fan of Robert Greene's take on speakers and he seems to like the Swarm quite a bit (and there are very few things out there that he likes). But I thought I would at least try the conventional route first, just to see if it might work. I don't expect that it will.
 
cjyosemite said:
I am not familiar with the JBL 4645C but from a google search it looks a real beast & probably over the top for a domestic system. But if it is going to cost only the price of postage then little harm in giving it a go & you never know it may be perfect - better to have something with power in reserve than too little unless the minimum level is too high for in the home.
Click to expand...

The one thing that is stopping me from trying this is that I'm such a weakling, I'm not sure I can actually get it into the house!
 
Wow, 63kg ... that thing is huge! And you want 4 of them! I hope you have a room the size of an airplane hangar and a very tolerant wife.
 
I don't want 4 of the JBLs! Not sure I want even one of them. But 4 smallish subs, maybe. Even the guy who makes and sells The Swarm concedes that 4 of almost anything will achieve the effect he is aiming for.
 
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