advertisement


Interconnect improvement!

davidjt said:
The trouble is Julf, if the post is scornful then it will be taken personally whether intended that way or not.
Click to expand...

And posts that point out logical fallacies are often taken as scornful whether intended that way or not.

(And frequently it seems to be the same bloody windmill. :D)
Click to expand...

True. We all have our pet peeves.

I had thought you were as thick-skinned as Keith: evidently not.
Apologies for stirring the pot
Click to expand...

Feel free to stir the pot - as long as you don't confuse me with Keith. :)
 
I tried a set of Shawline XLRs between my Nad Masters M12 Pre and M22 power amps and bought them immediately. I'd made up some XLRs with some studio grade Van Damme cable thinking this would be good enough but the Shawlines made things much more enjoyable.
Off the back of that I borrowed a set of Shawline and Epic speaker cables. Both sounded different to the relatively cheap Van Damme stuff I'm using but neither made music more enjoyable in the way the XLR cables did, so they got returned. They brought that slightly edgy, overly detailed, etched sound I don't like. Your mileage may vary of course.
 
awkwardbydesign said:
But your original sarcastic response to me was nothing like that, though, was it? Just trying to be clever it seems.
Click to expand...

It was a real point hidden in sarcasm. If there is a real difference in cables, there should also be a real difference in cable lengths.
 
lovejoy said:
Off the back of that I borrowed a set of Shawline and Epic speaker cables. Both sounded different to the relatively cheap Van Damme stuff I'm using but neither made music more enjoyable in the way the XLR cables did, so they got returned. They brought that slightly edgy, overly detailed, etched sound I don't like. Your mileage may vary of course.
Click to expand...
Indeed it does. I have had Van Damme 6mm Blue and 6mm Hifi, both of which sounded duller than I like, which is what you found, but in your case that difference was a positive. In mine it was a negative. I found I like TQ Ultra Blue, and especially Ultra Black, but not the Black. I bought the Ultra Blue, as I can't afford the Ultra Black. At the moment I have Studio Connections speaker cables (about £800/pair! And no, I didn't pay that.), but as my amp has changed I may well retry the TQ at some point, just out of curiosity. I am lucky, in that I get to listen to a lot of new equipment (and cables) at home and can choose what to buy after hearing what they do in my own system.
And as someone who has made my own amps, speakers and even cables, for a long time, I am content that I can tell differences.
 
Julf said:
It was a real point hidden in sarcasm. If there is a real difference in cables, there should also be a real difference in cable lengths.
Click to expand...

Julf, is there a slight questionable tone to your reply re. 'real differences'? Can't see the length being of any consequence, though; at least within reason.
 
Mike Reed said:
Julf, is there a slight questionable tone to your reply re. 'real differences'? Can't see the length being of any consequence, though; at least within reason.
Click to expand...

Pretty much all the physical properties of a cable are linearly proportional to cable length. Whatever effect the cable causes, a cable of double the length would cause double the effect.
 
Just a thought - take that £200-a-time wire budget and use a bit of the cash to buy a soldering iron, some solder, a bit of wire and and a couple of plugs to practice on. The soldering skills will be valuable - more so than paying somebody's crazy cable margin. Any cash left over is best put towards music or decent kit - you know, the really expensive kind that sounds good out of the box. Course, you'll struggle to afford that sort of stuff if you have to spend years paying a dealer for your wire habit. Hey ho... your call
 
Julf said:
Pretty much all the physical properties of a cable are linearly proportional to cable length. Whatever effect the cable causes, a cable of double the length would cause double the effect.
Click to expand...

On a measuring bench, using test signals, perhaps.

But if these length-specific parameters interact, in the context of a system taken as a whole, the cumulative effect might not be a linear one?

If you consider the resistance of the cable added to the impedance of the loudspeaker, a doubling of the cable resistance (ie a cable of twice the length) does not equate to a doubling of the load the amplifier sees. And not to mention any unwanted effects such as increased length increasing the possibility of noise being picked up.

I don't think it's quite as simple as you suggest. But I admire your tenacity. I've long since stopped participating in cable threads, I just took a look at this one out of nostalgia. And yet here you are still. Doggedly ploughing that furrow. Respect.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
But if these length-specific parameters interact, in the context of a system taken as a whole, the cumulative effect might not be a linear one?
Click to expand...

That is a fair point. It might not be a linear effect. It should still be a consistent effect. Double the length might not provide double the sound quality, but it should still provide *improved* quality.

If you consider the resistance of the cable added to the impedance of the loudspeaker, a doubling of the cable resistance (ie a cable of twice the length) does not equate to a doubling of the load the amplifier sees.
Click to expand...

Indeed. But here we are discussing interconnects, where the effect of cable resistance is pretty negligible.

I don't think it's quite as simple as you suggest. But I admire your tenacity. I've long since stopped participating in cable threads, I just took a look at this one out of nostalgia. And yet here you are still. Doggedly ploughing that furrow. Respect.
Click to expand...

Thank you - having just been in a rather intense discussion session (at a conference) dealing with "fake news" and fact-checking (and the importance of persistent fact-based argumentation) I really appreciate your words.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
......But I admire your tenacity. I've long since stopped participating in cable threads, I just took a look at this one out of nostalgia. And yet here you are still. Doggedly ploughing that furrow. Respect.
Click to expand...

I think it's called 'taking the lead'......( I'll g.m.c.)
 
Julf said:
Really. Because of basic physics. See my response to Mike.
Click to expand...

I always thought that the best cable would be the one that had less of an impact in sound.

If you're right, that would help to explain why my very short analogue ICs work so well in my setup.
 
Julf said:
That is a fair point. It might not be a linear effect. It should still be a consistent effect. Double the length might not provide double the sound quality, but it should still provide *improved* quality.

<>

Indeed. But here we are discussing interconnects, where the effect of cable resistance is pretty negligible.
Click to expand...

But presumably the other parameters (capacitance, inductance, dielectric effects, whatever) will be of some relevance, and doubling the length might result in an increase in the value of an undesirable parameter, perhaps an unhelpful increase in inductance for example, so *improved* might not be the appropriate word.

My wider point is that cable parameters, taken in isolation, don't tell enough of the story to be considered the only things at issue. And why cables need context to be more fully understood. I maintain that that 'context' includes not only the rest of the system, but also the nature of the signal they pass, and measurements using test tones into test loads just aren't sufficient.
 
Julf said:
It was a real point hidden in sarcasm. If there is a real difference in cables, there should also be a real difference in cable lengths.
Click to expand...

Not if the audible difference relate to the behaviours of the endpoints - i.e. cable / plug termination / considerations.

"Basic Physics" is - as the name suggests - just a first level simple approximation to reality.
 
rn82497 said:
Not if the audible difference relate to the behaviours of the endpoints - i.e. cable / plug termination / considerations.

"Basic Physics" is - as the name suggests - just a first level simple approximation to reality.
Click to expand...

Yes, and the behaviour of those endpoints is not something that a test tone, into a test load, will establish.
 
abbydog said:
Just a thought - take that £200-a-time wire budget and use a bit of the cash to buy a soldering iron, some solder, a bit of wire and and a couple of plugs to practice on. The soldering skills will be valuable - more so than paying somebody's crazy cable margin. Any cash left over is best put towards music or decent kit - you know, the really expensive kind that sounds good out of the box. Course, you'll struggle to afford that sort of stuff if you have to spend years paying a dealer for your wire habit. Hey ho... your call
Click to expand...
Well what do you know, I have made my own cables for at least 30 years, and guess what? Some cable manufacturers can actually make a better sounding cable than I can! Who would have thought that all that research, metallurgy, access to materials and equipment, bigger brains, etc, could ever make a difference? Go figure.
And I have made cables using silver, copper, plain, OFC, PC-OCC, solid core, stranded, litz, twisted, coaxial, screened, unscreened, Teflon, Kynar, poly-everything, cotton, silk, etc, etc.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.


advertisement


Back
Top