Impossible speakers?

[Hoopsontoast]

The only ATC I would consider is the SCM19 but I'm pretty certain they represent a challenging electrical load for the amplifier. I have heard them with Naim and didn't think they were bad at all. That woofer magnet is a massive piece!

SCM19s are actually quite an easy load for amps (new model is anyway).

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I head the original 'Entry' range with Naim Nait 5i & 122/NAP150 and was never a fan, on the end of an Audiolab 8200 or 8200MBs or even Bryston 4BSST they were much better.

 

[Woodface]

ATCs are not a difficult load they are just honest with their specs.

 

[Hazelberry]

That would probably work but has too much against it: poor assembly due to mass production, butt-ugly looks, neither a floorstander nor a bookshelf and very low pride of ownership value. It looks like a box somebody left on the floor.

I know someone with a pair. Ragged shouty things to my ears, & hugely overpriced imo. He powers them with a grunty solid state amplifier which seems to go against the usual recommended pairing with valves. I don’t get the appeal but they aren’t mine & he likes them.

One thing: why do you blame poor assembly on mass production, & how do you know they are mass produced? They’re a niche item, hardly as popular or ubiquitous as Toyota cars, which are very well made on assembly lines.

 

[James]

I suspect there are ways to "bend" Hoffman's Iron Law using psychoacoustics, so that the listener may perceive a loudspeaker in a particular way.

For example a small loudspeaker having a mild upward trend in the frequency response heading towards the bass from the middle of the audio spectrum before the bass response drops off. I think that takes advantage of the way humans perceive loudness to make a small loudspeaker seem capable of going louder compared to what the theory says the loudspeaker should do.

One technique is to raise the system Q, which also neatly reduces box volume. But depending on the cut-off knee frequency range, that could also cause the bass to sound boomy. And, the roll-off starts sooner and tapers more sharply. I think this has limited appeal in proper hifi loudspeakers, where the system Q should not exceed 1.0 but target between 0.6 and 0.8 instead.

 

[gez]

I know someone with a pair. Ragged shouty things to my ears, & hugely overpriced imo. He powers them with a grunty solid state amplifier which seems to go against the usual recommended pairing with valves. I don’t get the appeal but they aren’t mine & he likes them.

One thing: why do you blame poor assembly on mass production, & how do you know they are mass produced? They’re a niche item, hardly as popular or ubiquitous as Toyota cars, which are very well made on assembly lines.

The irony being that nearly every manufacturing process that changed from "hand made" to "mass produced" has resulted in better quality products (by any objective measure).

 

[Puggie]

To be fair, I've used my old ATC SCM10s (80dB/1w/1m) with everything from a 10wpc T-Amp to a 90wpc Sony Integrated amp in a small room (9ft Square) at low volumes and it was more than fine, I'd not be too worried with sensitivity in a small room and a 30wpc amplifier.
The ATC SCM7 & SCM10 are an easy electrical load too.

I’m currently driving a pair of SCM10s off a Sugden Musicmaster, 16wpc into 8ohm. While they don’t go loud (70s wimpy terrace so I’ll only rile the neighbours if they did) they do sound quite decent (tweeters want looking at, but they are old).

 

[tenpercenter]

Russell k Red 100 are a large ish stand mount that are quite efficient- and equally as important an easy load with a simple cross over.

The smaller Russell K Red 50’s are around 86db but again having a very simple crossover and 8 ohm nominal impedance make them easy to drive.

 

[al2002]

The 90db/w was simply a benchmark level to steer away from the 85bd crowd. A stable electrical resistance value closer to 8ohms rather than 4 would also help the amplifier and subsequent bass response.

This fixation on a particular sensitivity all but meaningless. BTW, You still haven't responded to the questions that were put to you upthread .

 

[S-Man]

The longer this thread goes on, the more likely that “impossible” is correct!

 

[Alex S]

Not sure why the Audio Note AX2s I mentioned way back have been completely ignored but never mind.

 

[James]

Hello all,
According to the collective PFM wisdom, does a pair of good-looking, nominal 8 ohm and over 90db, stand-mounted, neutral sounding and not stupidly-priced speakers exist on the market today? It's like searching for a needle in a haystack. What about the poor folks who need to satisfy these criteria?
Seems I would have better luck spotting Nessie and taking a selfie with Bigfoot...

As mentioned upthread, the Yamaha NS-1000M or NS-1000 ticks all these boxes insofar as preloved choices go.

 

[Darren L]

Audionote (Snell) , Loth X, Diapason, Elipson and Zingali have all made or make speakers which are easy to drive and compatible with low powered amplifiers.

You can also find 'outliers' from manufacturers not normally associated with easy to drive models. Proac DB1?
In the mid 90's I heard a pair of budget Acoustic Energy speakers driven by a 10w Audio Innovations 300 series integrated valve amp. I can't remember the model no. of the speakers but they were the 5 star darling of the hifi press that year with a claimed 90 db efficiency.

 

[Rockmeister]

Not sure why the Audio Note AX2s I mentioned way back have been completely ignored but never mind.

And the J's. But maybe this is about aesthetics more than SQ?

 

[TimF]

I like the sound of cone tweeters, going by the ones in my treasured Videotone Minimaxes. These look interesting... but surely you haven't left behind the One True Path of omnidirectionality, Tim?

Oh no, I still have my Duevel Venus, and just added a pair of Shahinian Larcs. The WLM I typically have used sparingly here and there with my Croft Acoustics tube/hybrid electronics. The cone tweeters in the WLM just sound very good, and the network includes a tweeter trimmer which is quite useful for tuning. I remain faithful to my omnis! Hope all is well with you! Happy New Year!

 

[marshanp]

Oh no, I still have my Duevel Venus, and just added a pair of Shahinian Larcs. The WLM I typically have used sparingly here and there with my Croft Acoustics tube/hybrid electronics. The cone tweeters in the WLM just sound very good, and the network includes a tweeter trimmer which is quite useful for tuning. I remain faithful to my omnis! Hope all is well with you! Happy New Year!

Very well, thank you Tim - and a Happy New Year to you too

My Venuses are better than ever, now working in tandem with their new friend the EAR 834L valve preamp - the finishing touch to the system (or so it should be...). Lots of concerts coming up too, yay!