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I want to test out acoustic treatment

As you can imagine, photographing such a small space ain't easy, esp. with a phone. Don't have any picture editing software to tart the images up either, but let's see if this works. And for those who don't know, panels don't have to be black . . .

Front wall


Rear wall

Right side (window)

Left side (opposite window)


Need to run a steam iron over one or two of the panels to remove creases. Front and rear main panels covered with 'natural' curtain fabric. All others with stuff like this.

Currently trying to find a more suitable home for the Odysseus. It takes up a considerable amount of space on the desk and the fan is there to stop the heat from the valves/transformers doing something unpleasant to the underside of the screen.
 
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Good stuff. Can see how you've achieved a dramatically different sound. Need to do something like that with my back wall.
 
Having noted some improvements in mids and highs with a couch squab against a wall on one side of my asymetrical room, tonight I finished building this. It is an addition to some other treatments and I have three canvas paintings that can swap in and out with magnets holding them in place over 65mm of acoustic material with magnets. The other 2 canvases are not stapled into their respective frames yet (I ran out of staples). It is now too late at night for me to try it out.

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2pPJQY7]20240507_211624 by artoly the second, on Flickr[/URL]

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2pPHGZb]20240505_131203 by artoly the second, on Flickr[/URL]
 
The framing on those canvases looks great, much nicer than generic panels. Nice work.

I've dipped a toe into the water too...

1. Room modes - even just using a freebie phone app I could see a gigantic +10-15dB 50hz room mode. I then plugged my exact room dimensions in Google's Gemini AI and it calculated I should indeed expect a 50hz room mode. Got Roon back up and running, put in an EQ filter, -7db at 49hz with Q of 7 and the amount of bloat that has vanished is hugely satisfying. Minimal overhang, everything clearer, more space in the sound stage etc.

I'm surprised my ears/brain accepted the bloat for what has been years. When turning EQ off it's not pretty. It can't be unheard. The plan here is to do more accurate filters for the bass using REW and importing into Roon. Just as soon as a figure out REW.

2. First reflections (side wall) - My speakers are 15cm from the side walls šŸ˜­ I did try some cobbled together absorption way back but didn't give it a fair chance because of a dumb bias I had. I stumbled across this...

ethanwiner.com

Early Reflections Are Not Beneficial

ethanwiner.com

...which inspired me to give it another crack. I now have thick cushions temporarily wedged between speaker and the wall. Initially for the first minute or two I didn't like it. Soundstage width definitely reduce. This time I gave it longer than 30 seconds. Errrr... What was I thinking? With my guerrilla absorption ...

- Soundstage width slightly decreased but what used to appear as width has been pushed forward in front of the speakers resulting in far more depth. Soundstage depth significantly increases. Good example: Billie Eilish Power of You, in first 10-20s there's some acoustic guitar playing. Before this used to appear 1-2ft outside of each speaker. With the cushions, it now appears about half a foot out and also a couple feet further forward.
- Clarity, massively up. After leaving the cushions in for a while and then removing them I can now clearly hear how the side walls are creating reverb/combing effect that is significantly cluttering up and also diffusing the sound. A ton of noise has been removed, a ton of clarity gained.
- With all that I can now hear reverb in the actual music in a way I've never been able to hear before. It's not a subtle difference. Though music without reverb can sound kind of dead, but that's how it's supposed to sound (if you listen on headphones). Meaning I'm hearing into the mix now, before the reflections were colouring everything. All of these three things combined have significantly improved soundstage depth.
- Less fatiguing, it's just easier to listen to music.

I'm 100% sold. Ordered a set of these which look like they have well measured absorption properties https://eqacoustics.com/products/r5-colour-panel
e0oxVzm.png
...come in a pack of 4 so I can have a dabble with the ceiling first reflection points too and plan to wrap them in a colour to match my wall paint so my room doesn't look too much like a studio.

3. Standing waves - it looks like I have 100hz room dip. Some bass traps on the wall behind the speakers could clean that up nicely, there's a few that have high absorption at exactly that frequency. Just waiting on eqacoustics.com to send me some fabric samples so I can match them to my wall colour and we'll see how that works.

It seems there's a sweet spot between just enough treatment to reduce the noise clutter but not so much you get that horrible dead studio / band practice room sound. I reckon treatment for first reflection side walls / ceiling and a couple of traps behind the speakers should do it nicely in my room.

Will confirm with REW RTE and frequency measurements. And will also tweak speaker position with REW too to make all the treatment more effective.

I'm a convert. The sound quality for cost is a no brainer. It is fascinating how your brain adapts to relatively crappy sound.
 
Go easy on ceiling treatment. My room was 19x16x19ft, a very high ceiling and I could never get decent bass, even with a sub.
I put in a mezzanine and its now 19x16x9ft and sounds pretty good. I have 4ft behind my sofa on the long axis.
Domestic speakers are voiced for ceiling gain.
 
I built all of my treatments a couple of years ago It was a fun DIY project. You will want to try and and get a mix of absorption and diffraction. Made a big difference in the room.
 
davidsrsb said:
Go easy on ceiling treatment. My room was 19x16x19ft, a very high ceiling and I could never get decent bass, even with a sub.
I put in a mezzanine and its now 19x16x9ft and sounds pretty good. I have 4ft behind my sofa on the long axis.
Domestic speakers are voiced for ceiling gain.
Click to expand...

That's interesting. Based on other threads (which might have been on another forum), I had come to the conclusion that the dream dedicated room would be about 4m high (roughly 13 feet I think). It seems that might not be the ideal scenario, or is more system dependent than assumed. My ceiling is only 8 feet.
 
guydarryl said:
@artoly and @Milspec1 - really appreciate your combinations of art and purpose, genius :)
Click to expand...
Very kind of you guydarryl. More room treatment, that looked like room treatment, was out of the question if I was to keep the harmony. My music room is the shared lounge.

I also struggled to get agreement on the art, being another reason for the interchangeable frames on magnets. The canvases to date are just cheap 18GBP ones (approx.) off Ali. Cheap enough that if anyone says they don't like it, I can tell them to choose another and I'll hang it for a while.

I've got one of these to try next (I put on hangers to suit portrait and landscape orientation):
[url=https://flic.kr/p/2pPPxkV]Screenshot 2024-05-08 072238 by artoly the second, on Flickr[/URL]
 
uncl_nigel said:
I had the ceiling done - brilliant results :cool: No other acoustic treatment, not even a rug.
Height loss 6-7cm. Acoustic rock wool hidden behind a heat-stretched micro-perforated ceiling (some sort of plastic). Lovely to look at especially as I had the lighting moved to the walls.
Click to expand...
Picture please.
 
It's nice to see folks having a go at treating their listening rooms.
I started way back in 2008 during the big recession, and since then have now completed three full rooms here.
I am by no means a trained acoustician, but have learnt a lot along the way.
I did complete three blogs (all easy enough to find) online with many hundreds of images on how I personally approached the projects.
It's ongoing to a degree, and plenty of stuff keeps appearing to make it even easier.
For me, it makes a massive difference to listening, but I do have the ability to do what I want in the rooms - they are not 'shared living spaces' so fully get that what I have done is simply not viable for a great many folks.

With regard to ceilings - I have not 'gone easy' with them, at all!
They are all 100% 'traps' being a minimum of 350mm thick, - with the caveat that there are traps that are 'fully absorbing' and traps that are designed to reflect mids & highs.
Took some research to get where I am, but very satisfying with results.
As for making a room 'too dead' - there is a saying - "you can never have too many bass traps", and I agree there, and there are many ways to ensure the room does not become an anechoic chamber.
Easiest way to achieve that is to make the traps reflective of highs and mids.

Trying to defeat deep bass modes (below say 100Hz) is a very big ask with full range panels, unless you have room for very deep panels!
This is where Helmholtz resonators become your friend - but they are very limited in the range each one works, so you may end up with several in a room.
I have used zero DSP as I personally am not a fan of it - I know plenty who are and get the results they like.
Neither have I found a use for diffraction, but maybe I will try one day, as I really like the look of some of them.
I work on the principle that for diffraction to work at its best you need it to be a good 2m from where you are seated.

The last room I built contains several tons (yes, tons) of rock wool bass / first reflection point traps, and it a joy to listen to music in it.
Very, very few folks can even think of doing such a project, unless a bespoke space is available - and it takes a fair bit of ones time, and costs can be, well, a fair bit.
It was a very good 'lockdown' project for me though.


https://flic.kr/p/2oky85v
 
Sonority said:
It's nice to see folks having a go at treating their listening rooms.
I started way back in 2008 during the big recession, and since then have now completed three full rooms here.
I am by no means a trained acoustician, but have learnt a lot along the way.
I did complete three blogs (all easy enough to find) online with many hundreds of images on how I personally approached the projects.
It's ongoing to a degree, and plenty of stuff keeps appearing to make it even easier.
For me, it makes a massive difference to listening, but I do have the ability to do what I want in the rooms - they are not 'shared living spaces' so fully get that what I have done is simply not viable for a great many folks.

With regard to ceilings - I have not 'gone easy' with them, at all!
They are all 100% 'traps' being a minimum of 350mm thick, - with the caveat that there are traps that are 'fully absorbing' and traps that are designed to reflect mids & highs.
Took some research to get where I am, but very satisfying with results.
As for making a room 'too dead' - there is a saying - "you can never have too many bass traps", and I agree there, and there are many ways to ensure the room does not become an anechoic chamber.
Easiest way to achieve that is to make the traps reflective of highs and mids.

Trying to defeat deep bass modes (below say 100Hz) is a very big ask with full range panels, unless you have room for very deep panels!
This is where Helmholtz resonators become your friend - but they are very limited in the range each one works, so you may end up with several in a room.
I have used zero DSP as I personally am not a fan of it - I know plenty who are and get the results they like.
Neither have I found a use for diffraction, but maybe I will try one day, as I really like the look of some of them.
I work on the principle that for diffraction to work at its best you need it to be a good 2m from where you are seated.

The last room I built contains several tons (yes, tons) of rock wool bass / first reflection point traps, and it a joy to listen to music in it.
Very, very few folks can even think of doing such a project, unless a bespoke space is available - and it takes a fair bit of ones time, and costs can be, well, a fair bit.
It was a very good 'lockdown' project for me though.


https://flic.kr/p/2oky85v
Click to expand...
No windows. I take it that it's a basement?
 
Nope - not a house, an old Victorian foundry.
Fully soundproofed as well (thats another story) so full MVHR as well (silent) required.
That's on the first floor as well.
As I said, Im lucky to be able to do what I did.
Ceiling height is some 4.5m
 
Sonority said:
It's nice to see folks having a go at treating their listening rooms.
I started way back in 2008 during the big recession, and since then have now completed three full rooms here.
I am by no means a trained acoustician, but have learnt a lot along the way.
I did complete three blogs (all easy enough to find) online with many hundreds of images on how I personally approached the projects.
It's ongoing to a degree, and plenty of stuff keeps appearing to make it even easier.
For me, it makes a massive difference to listening, but I do have the ability to do what I want in the rooms - they are not 'shared living spaces' so fully get that what I have done is simply not viable for a great many folks.

With regard to ceilings - I have not 'gone easy' with them, at all!
They are all 100% 'traps' being a minimum of 350mm thick, - with the caveat that there are traps that are 'fully absorbing' and traps that are designed to reflect mids & highs.
Took some research to get where I am, but very satisfying with results.
As for making a room 'too dead' - there is a saying - "you can never have too many bass traps", and I agree there, and there are many ways to ensure the room does not become an anechoic chamber.
Easiest way to achieve that is to make the traps reflective of highs and mids.

Trying to defeat deep bass modes (below say 100Hz) is a very big ask with full range panels, unless you have room for very deep panels!
This is where Helmholtz resonators become your friend - but they are very limited in the range each one works, so you may end up with several in a room.
I have used zero DSP as I personally am not a fan of it - I know plenty who are and get the results they like.
Neither have I found a use for diffraction, but maybe I will try one day, as I really like the look of some of them.
I work on the principle that for diffraction to work at its best you need it to be a good 2m from where you are seated.

The last room I built contains several tons (yes, tons) of rock wool bass / first reflection point traps, and it a joy to listen to music in it.
Very, very few folks can even think of doing such a project, unless a bespoke space is available - and it takes a fair bit of ones time, and costs can be, well, a fair bit.
It was a very good 'lockdown' project for me though.


https://flic.kr/p/2oky85v
Click to expand...

My room looks exactly like that now I've wedged two IKEA cushions between the wall and the speaker.

Your room looks amazing. Big old room!

Any tips for tiny, tiny rooms? (Smaller than 3x4m) Cheers
 
For 'smaller' rooms, it appears that you simply need as many full range panels as you are prepared to live with will give best result.
The mantra 'First Reflection points' then corners will be good.
First reflection points need to be fully absorbing, but need be no more than 50mm for that.
Anywhere else, simply as thick as you can make them acceptable, and add mid / high reflective covering to the rock wool (silver foil - very thin card etc)
Remember there are 12 corners in a normal room, and that is where bass accumulates. (Floor / wall, wall / ceiling, wall/wall,) and the tri-corner of wall/wall/ceiling can produce good results.
Good luck - it is worthwhile.
 
Sonority said:
For 'smaller' rooms, it appears that you simply need as many full range panels as you are prepared to live with will give best result.
The mantra 'First Reflection points' then corners will be good.
First reflection points need to be fully absorbing, but need be no more than 50mm for that.
Anywhere else, simply as thick as you can make them acceptable, and add mid / high reflective covering to the rock wool (silver foil - very thin card etc)
Remember there are 12 corners in a normal room, and that is where bass accumulates. (Floor / wall, wall / ceiling, wall/wall,) and the tri-corner of wall/wall/ceiling can produce good results.
Good luck - it is worthwhile.
Click to expand...

Thanks. The reflective covering makes sense... Last night, in further guerrilla room treatment attempts, I put a load of thick cushioning behind the speakers. A touch more clarity was gained (not nearly as much as sidewall treatment) but it deadened the sound and sense of air a bit too much. Net effect was a minus to my ears. So yeah, I can see how the covering could be important. More testing to ensue.
 
I have found that doing 'stuff' behind the speakers to be worthwhile trying as and when all other places that can be done have been sorted first.
Most sound behind a speaker will have been reflected there from elsewhere in the room (above ported frequencies if ported).
 
Well done to the posters who have had a go at making your own acoustic panels, they look great and with any of the fibre based insulation materials should do a good job of absorbing mid to high frequencies.

I visited Steve at @Sonority around a year ago and was massively impressed with how it felt to be in his room and how the music sounded in there. This persuaded me to have a go at making some mid to high frequency (>300 Hz) absorbers as my room could make some music sound a bit bright after removing some of the furniture at the first reflection point, which must have acted as a diffuser as it was lots of surfaces at different angles and distance from the wall.

I talked to Steve, to an acoustician friend of mine who makes panels as part of big room tuning projects and looked at quite a few Youtube videos on how to make your own panels. I started out with 50*50mm unplaned wood to make panels around 600 * 600mm sheets of 50mm thick insulation. My first thought was to do what most people do and use Rockwool acoustic insulation but after buying a roll of it decided it was too dusty for me to work with and I was not convinced that I would seal the absorbers well enough to stop dust getting into my room and yet allow the air to pass through and into the absorber for the sound energy to be absorbed. After some research I decided on Hemp batts, but they were difficult to purchase except in large quantities, so I settled on recycled cotton batts.

unitylime.co.uk

PAVATEXTIL P - Unity Lime

PAVATEXTIL P is a soft thermo-acoustic insulation board originating from recycled textile (jeans and velvet) and polyester fibers.
unitylime.co.uk unitylime.co.uk

My first 2 panels were from the 50*50mm unplaned softwood, but I decided that they were heavier and larger than needed and so went for 16*36mm frame with 4mm ply attached to the 16mm outer edge to create a lightweight but fairly rigid frame (glued and screwed). The added 45mm thick recycled cotton batts for the insulation. Some lightweight garden anti weed material (very cheap and lest enough air through to e functional), and then added a layer of material that had images printed on it.

After some research and testing I settled on Single Jersey from the following company:

Single Jersey 180gsm

Custom Printed Single Jersey Fabric. Our single jersey is an extra wide 100% polyester fabric that offers unrivalled value for money. It is perfect for a wide range of clothing products including t-shirts, leggings and babywear.
prinfab.com prinfab.com

As has been noted in the thread, the biggest problem I have had is also finding prints that artists are okay with having printed onto this material. I like photographs and so am approaching friends to see if I can get some of their images printed. One kind artist allowed me to use one of his bits of art:

53706998326_567505391d_k.jpg


The square black absorber is prototype number 1 and I am still trying to find some artwork for it. The orange image is from an artist and fully wraps around the edges.
 
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