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I need an amp with punch and clarity

N

Navyblue

Member
My setup:

Transport: Singxer SU-6
DAC: Denafrips Pontus 2 12th Anniversary
Preamp: AMB Lab Alpha 20 (DIY build, balanced with stepped attenuator)
Speaker: Harbeth C7-ES3 40th Anniversary

When the speaker is used with Line Magnetic LM-211ia, sometimes I feel the midrange sounds too coloured. The liquid midrange of a tube amp doesn't help this speaker IMO, it's hard to make a Harbeth sounds dry.

I prefer this speaker with my SMSL A300, a $200 class D amp from China. I think this speaker fares better with amp that has a linear and clear midrange. It's good for acoustic music. For rock and pop it can have punch and bite, but at a volume I am uncomfortable to subject my neighbour with. At normal volume it sounds too smooth for me.

Of course Harbeths are not known for their punch and bite, but I have heard punchier amps than my cheap class D.

I auditioned Roksan Blak, Musical Fidelity MS 6si and Hegel H190. I can't audition them with my speaker, so I could be wrong but I don't feel them to be particularly punchy amps. The Hegel and Musical Fidelity I suspect also needs a bit of volume for them to wake up. The Roksan Blak might also be a touch too coloured in the midrange. I am curious about the cheaper Roksan M2 and K3 power amp.

Naim are often described as punchy, but do they have terrible separation and sound stage? And Rotel? Other than these I'm not really sure where to look.

So in short, I'm looking for an amp that majors on punch and clarity. Budget wise I am somewhat flexible, as long as they are comparable to the cost of my source or speakers components. I prefer power amp with balanced input, but it's not a strict requirement.

Thanks for reading.
 
Naim have wonderful separation and punch and soundstage .get a naim , lots of offers on .one dealer closing down on here with naim

Or try the new classic range which now have xlr in
 
The roksan amps have been heavily discounted recently , m2 caspian going for 599 at one point possibly suggesting a refresh
 
The amps that you've mentioned are all over the map, so it's difficult to get a sense as to where you're really trying to go. First off, the Pontus DAC is quite punchy itself, so your source is not an issue.

I'm no longer in love with Naim amplifiers, having long ago made the jump to Avondale. I'm also impressed with Neurochrome DIY amps. I have the Modulus-686, which is very articulate and clean sounding, as well as delving deep in the bass territory.

More recently with my Klipsch Cornwall, I've got myself a tube amp now. I've learned that it's critically important to match the amp with the speakers. Therefore my best suggestion to you is to see what other people are using with your speakers. That should give you a good indicator of where you should go next.
 
I’ve had this for a while amazing amp. Better than any Naim integrated. I also tested against Lyngdorf and Hegel and the Atoll was much better to my ears
 
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Have a look at the Cambridge Audio Azur range of power amps, the 851W in particular is a belter, and has the connections you desire.
 
For punchy and clear amps, look at the naim xs2 or the supernait 2. Or if you are able to you could source naim olive amplifiers as well.

My personal opinion is that the harbeths are the problem, not the amp. It is very smooth and lack dynamics. You could look into other speakers first. I suspect you might like dynaudios.
 
Navyblue said:
My setup:

Transport: Singxer SU-6
DAC: Denafrips Pontus 2 12th Anniversary
Preamp: AMB Lab Alpha 20 (DIY build, balanced with stepped attenuator)
Speaker: Harbeth C7-ES3 40th Anniversary

When the speaker is used with Line Magnetic LM-211ia, sometimes I feel the midrange sounds too coloured. The liquid midrange of a tube amp doesn't help this speaker IMO, it's hard to make a Harbeth sounds dry.

I prefer this speaker with my SMSL A300, a $200 class D amp from China. I think this speaker fares better with amp that has a linear and clear midrange. It's good for acoustic music. For rock and pop it can have punch and bite, but at a volume I am uncomfortable to subject my neighbour with. At normal volume it sounds too smooth for me.

Of course Harbeths are not known for their punch and bite, but I have heard punchier amps than my cheap class D.

I auditioned Roksan Blak, Musical Fidelity MS 6si and Hegel H190. I can't audition them with my speaker, so I could be wrong but I don't feel them to be particularly punchy amps. The Hegel and Musical Fidelity I suspect also needs a bit of volume for them to wake up. The Roksan Blak might also be a touch too coloured in the midrange. I am curious about the cheaper Roksan M2 and K3 power amp.

Naim are often described as punchy, but do they have terrible separation and sound stage? And Rotel? Other than these I'm not really sure where to look.

So in short, I'm looking for an amp that majors on punch and clarity. Budget wise I am somewhat flexible, as long as they are comparable to the cost of my source or speakers components. I prefer power amp with balanced input, but it's not a strict requirement.

Thanks for reading.
Click to expand...

I've owned the Harbeth SHL5 and SHL5+ for more than 12 years and have listened to the C7ES3 several times. The C7ES3 is a slightly warmer sounding speaker than the SHL5+.

I admit I haven't tried it all but I've tried at least 7 amp combinations with the Harbeth SHL5 within one year in an attempt to make them boogie. I originally had a big Plinius Class A power amp with Audio Research LS16 and tried Rega, LFD, NVA, Naim and few more and finally settled with Naim specifically NAC202/NAP200 before migrating to 282/250DR with the SHL5 Plus. The Naim did it for me as the Harbeth sounded soft and lacked the punch and dynamics with all other amps. Clarity wasn't good too. In short, if you want the Harbeth to boogie, Naim is strong contender but it's only with the high level Naim. I tried the Nait XS with the Harbeth and the sound is almost the same as the Rega Elicit mk2, wooly sounding. With Harbeth, minimum Supernait or 202/200 and above.

I've now moved on to something else - Graham LS5/9. Alternatively you may try the M30.2 40th anniversary if you seek punch and dynamics. Or the SHL5+ if the room can accommodate. Or the Graham LS5/9. 😁
 
Thatsmynamedude said:
For punchy and clear amps, look at the naim xs2 or the supernait 2. Or if you are able to you could source naim olive amplifiers as well.

My personal opinion is that the harbeths are the problem, not the amp. It is very smooth and lack dynamics. You could look into other speakers first. I suspect you might like dynaudios.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. I don't have experience with the latest XD Harbeth but have listened to all pre-XD models. The C7ES3 is the smoothest/warmest sounding speaker in the Harbeth line alongside P3ESR which lacks punch and dynamics. Super HL5+ has better dynamics, the M30.2 even more explosive dynamics but overall smoother with an intimate sound. People usually pair the Harbeth with punchy amps particularly for rock or dynamic music but one can only do that much. Ultimately the speaker will be the limiting factor. The Harbeth is fatigue free and has that easy going sound with most amps out there but may fall a little short in punch and dynamics.
 
Croft 7 series amps work beautifully with Harbeth speakers - sadly Glenn Croft is no longer with us so will have to be a preloved purchase. I have owned P3ESR (twice) and M30.2 and I got them to rock reasonably well with Croft amps and a friend uses Bel Canto with his M30’s and that’s a good combo. In all cases the front end was also punchy and dynamic (Lyra Delos in my case). I also found Harbeths really interact with room boundaries more than expected which make them thick sounding - stay clear of side walls especially.

I eventually got a little fed up with that thickness of sound - my listening room is not the biggest - and subsequently found a pair of Russell K Red 50 speakers that offered more life and natural realism to music.
 
Keep an eye out for a 2nd hand Supernait, at leat if you don’t like it you can sell it on easily.

It could be the speakers though but I assume you must ultimately like them?

There are some nice ATC19A’s on the classifieds here, you could drive them straight from your pre-amp & sell what you don’t need.
 
I once heard a pair of SHL5 sound as clear and punchy (and fun and dynamic) as I had never heard them - but it was with Esoteric mechanism into a Bricasti DAC and a Pass Labs INT-25.
I have also heard the SHL5 sound clear and dynamic with a Naim Nait 50 though - their latest product.
I'll always second suggestions of Naim. I am at my fourth SuperNait 1, and am sure that in their vast used catalogue there is something that fits your requests..
 
Navyblue said:
My setup:

Transport: Singxer SU-6
DAC: Denafrips Pontus 2 12th Anniversary
Preamp: AMB Lab Alpha 20 (DIY build, balanced with stepped attenuator)
Speaker: Harbeth C7-ES3 40th Anniversary

When the speaker is used with Line Magnetic LM-211ia, sometimes I feel the midrange sounds too coloured. The liquid midrange of a tube amp doesn't help this speaker IMO, it's hard to make a Harbeth sounds dry.

I prefer this speaker with my SMSL A300, a $200 class D amp from China. I think this speaker fares better with amp that has a linear and clear midrange. It's good for acoustic music. For rock and pop it can have punch and bite, but at a volume I am uncomfortable to subject my neighbour with. At normal volume it sounds too smooth for me.

Of course Harbeths are not known for their punch and bite, but I have heard punchier amps than my cheap class D.

I auditioned Roksan Blak, Musical Fidelity MS 6si and Hegel H190. I can't audition them with my speaker, so I could be wrong but I don't feel them to be particularly punchy amps. The Hegel and Musical Fidelity I suspect also needs a bit of volume for them to wake up. The Roksan Blak might also be a touch too coloured in the midrange. I am curious about the cheaper Roksan M2 and K3 power amp.

Naim are often described as punchy, but do they have terrible separation and sound stage? And Rotel? Other than these I'm not really sure where to look.

So in short, I'm looking for an amp that majors on punch and clarity. Budget wise I am somewhat flexible, as long as they are comparable to the cost of my source or speakers components. I prefer power amp with balanced input, but it's not a strict requirement.

Thanks for reading.
Click to expand...
Maybe the Harbeths aren’t the speakers you’re looking for.
Try Monitor Audios or B&Ws
 
I bought some C7ES3's several years ago and my findings mirror yours. Somehow some people don't find they lack "punch", some do. If you're in the latter category, change the speaker, sorry! The newer version must be better than the one I had, but the C7 was the most boring speaker I've ever had.
 
In defence of the C7ES3s mine sprang to life when fed with an ATC 150wpc integrated amp. This replace some 20 year old unserviced Exposure amps which sounded dull and thick driving the C7s. Musical taste is mainly acoustical classical but with a lot of jazz too. I suspect that playing electronic music may not be so satisfactory. The C7s are my long term keepers and find that they respond well to good quality stands
 
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