advertisement


I have to laugh . . . the AT VM95E vs the Grado Sonata

matt j said:
Surely Grado still have the drawings or jigs or whatever for these carts, so what is the reason for not making them, is it purely current material availability/cost?
Click to expand...

Take the styluses for instance. They'll buy them in and better diamonds and profiles cost more. That's why an Audio Technica with a Shibata stylus costs more than the same cartridge with a Micro Line.

Grado do not publish what kind of stylus they're using, just describing it vaguely as a 'diamond tip' or 'elptical'. So they can fit what they like and the buyer has no idea what it is. If you buy an Ortofon, Audio Technica or just about any other brand of cartridge you know exactly what sort of stylus profile you're getting. Not so with Grado.

What would be a good reason for them doing that?
 
Specs other cartridges can only dream of and best sounding cartridge i have ever heard
$12,000 only reason i do not have one
Frequency Response: 5-75 KHz
Channel Separation: Average 35db - 10-30k Hz
Lowest moving mass Ever
Tracking force: 1.6 - 1.9 grams
Non-Sensitive to Capacitive Load
The Epoch did things I hadn't heard any cartridge do…put on an LP of the right music, sit down…and you're done. It's remarkable.
Stereophile, Michael Fremer

If you have the money and are looking for an amazing cartridge for your record collection, the Grado Epoch is the one. Steve Hoffman

For me, a 10 out of 10 Star product is the Grado Epoch.VPI, Harry Weisfeld


Grado Epoch Phono Cartridge (positive-feedback.com)
Grado Timbre Series, Opus3 - The Absolute Sound
 
daytona600 said:
Specs other cartridges can only dream of and best sounding cartridge I have ever heard
Click to expand...

I'm not very interested in what they give you for $12,000. I'm interested in what you get for the same price as the Audio Technica cartridges I can afford.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RoA
Mr Pig said:
I guess that's a fair comment. I don't know anything about the people and I'm only making assumptions.

I still don't have the confidence you have in them. More evolved version of elliptical, what does that mean? Every other cartridge manufacturer on the planet is happy to tell you the exact stylus profile they have used but Grado just describe the stylus type as 'E'? Even on their top cart all they say is 'diamond tip'.

If you search this horrible internet you will find other people saying that the specification of Grado styluses has dropped and they're not as good as they used to be.

Where is this new range of cartridges? I can't see them. What is new, the word new?
Click to expand...
Properly executed elliptical, or hyperelliptical stylus is excellent.

One of the world's top styli are Ogura PA (3x30), exclusive to Lyra and sadly discontinued Transfiguration.

The new Grado range is the Linneage, which have sapphire cantilevers.

However, I own the NOS 8XTZ and agree that it's excellent.
 
Robert said:
I disagree and think you are being too hard on Colin.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating, as they say.
The stylus quality of all but the top end carts is poor. Forgivable on a sub £100 Black or Green perhaps but not on the models further up the line.

Simply taking tired old guts and placing them into an eversized wooden coffin for a huge premium just won't cut it. Certainly not against the competition.

I have NOS F1+ G & Z models in my collection from the days when Joe Grado ran the show. They leave the current crop for dead. Even the old budget models like the FT which cost £11 in the 80s will best all of the current Prestige range.

All such a shame as you can hear flashes of excellence from the fundamental design in even the current models - they just need a proper refresh with better styli.

Great headphones though!
Click to expand...
With regards to putting near-same guts into exotic housings, perhaps Koetsu should be brought up as a good example.
 
Mr Pig said:
I'm not very interested in what they give you for $12,000. I'm interested in what you get for the same price as the Audio Technica cartridges I can afford.
Click to expand...
$250 Opus
Grado Timbre Series, Opus3 - The Absolute Sound

Grado
Frequency Response: 10-60 kHz
Non-Sensitive to Capacitive Load
Channel Separation 30db - 10-30k Hz

Audio Technica VM740ML
Frequency Response 20 - 27,000Hz
Channel Separation 28dB (1kHz)
Recommended Load Capacitance 100 – 200pF
 
daytona600 said:
$250 Opus
Grado Timbre Series, Opus3 - The Absolute Sound

Grado
Frequency Response: 10-60 kHz
Non-Sensitive to Capacitive Load
Channel Separation 30db - 10-30k Hz

Audio Technica VM740ML
Frequency Response 20 - 27,000Hz
Channel Separation 28dB (1kHz)
Recommended Load Capacitance 100 – 200pF
Click to expand...
Most ATs have very good channel separation.

Most Grados have exceptionally good channel separation.

Also to note, Grado still makes P-Mount in Prestige line, all the way up to Gold.
 
Mr Pig said:
Not one of them specify stylus profile, cantilever material or stylus mounting type.
Click to expand...
Aluminum and twin-tip, which is likely hyper-elliptical. Like all the rest except the Linneage line which uses sapphire cantilevers and... true ellipsoid... also likely hyper-elliptical.

More expensive versions are nude mounted.
 
Common styli versions are Prestige Line & Reference line
XTZ /TLZ /MCZ /8MZ etc Nude Hyper Elliptical / Twin Tip Bi-Ellpitcal Stylus with 2/3/4 part construction OTL cantilevers These styli can transform the lower spec models

OTL "Optimized Transmission Line" cantilever shaft is brought to a fixed axial pivot that supports the entire cantilever assembly.
A miniature element attached to the end of the cantilever is allowed to move freely within the lines of flux of a stationary magnet and coil structure.
Grado's OTL provides an ideal transfer of the signal from point to point, e.g., stylus to
cantilever to magnet to coils, etc. This has been achieved by eliminating resonance at each of these key junctions. The transmission line cantilever consists of separate sections that are
telescoped into each other.
All sections are made of different alloys, some sections hollow,
other sections solid. These sections are bonded together with materials that act as dampers,
and are coated with a black proprietary material which controls and absorbs resonances that
travel on the surface of the cantilever (known as skin effects). The OTL stylus/cantilever
design will make your records sound quieter, improve the height, width, and depth of the
soundstage, and offer more detail than previously obtainable. Cartridge Holography does
exist...and that is what Grado's OTL technology is all about, more performance.

Some have tried over the years to make replacement grado Styli but always failed
Higher spec models are all Fixed stylus like a MC & trade on / rebuild by the Factory
 
daytona600 said:
Common styli versions are Prestige Line & Reference line
XTZ /TLZ /MCZ /8MZ etc Nude Hyper Elliptical / Twin Tip Bi-Ellpitcal Stylus with 2/3/4 part construction OTL cantilevers These styli can transform the lower spec models

OTL "Optimized Transmission Line" cantilever shaft is brought to a fixed axial pivot that supports the entire cantilever assembly.
A miniature element attached to the end of the cantilever is allowed to move freely within the lines of flux of a stationary magnet and coil structure.
Grado's OTL provides an ideal transfer of the signal from point to point, e.g., stylus to
cantilever to magnet to coils, etc. This has been achieved by eliminating resonance at each of these key junctions. The transmission line cantilever consists of separate sections that are
telescoped into each other.
All sections are made of different alloys, some sections hollow,
other sections solid. These sections are bonded together with materials that act as dampers,
and are coated with a black proprietary material which controls and absorbs resonances that
travel on the surface of the cantilever (known as skin effects). The OTL stylus/cantilever
design will make your records sound quieter, improve the height, width, and depth of the
soundstage, and offer more detail than previously obtainable. Cartridge Holography does
exist...and that is what Grado's OTL technology is all about, more performance.

Some have tried over the years to make replacement grado Styli but always failed
Higher spec models are all Fixed stylus like a MC & trade on / rebuild by the Factory
Click to expand...
Thank you for an excellent explanation!
 
Maybe it’s because I couldn’t get round to accepting that my Lyra Delos is knackered but finally replacing it with The AT VM95E has brought joy and sunshine into our lives again (very corny, I’ll admit). But, for 50 bucks, it’s a bloody good cartridge.

I’m at a bit of a loss what to do with the Lyra; I was gonna get it “pimped” by Goldring (based on the numerous favourable write ups on here) but Brexit has knee-capped that option. There’s a dude in the States that supposed to be the bizz with rebuilding Lyras, but the time and distance involved…..Therefore, I might even stay with MMs and look at one of AT’s top versions.

It’s not that I’m unhappy with what the 95E is doing but the deck and system has got a lot of potential so any personal experiences with “down grading” from MC to MM would be appreciated.

Cheers.
 
kanwar said:
so any personal experiences with “down grading” from MC to MM would be appreciated.

Cheers.
Click to expand...

It's not that I find MMs bad in any way, but every time I have tried going back it always feels like something is missing.

There are many great MM carts, and I suppose if I'd never heard a decent MC then I'd be happy but it's like you can't put the genie back in the bottle.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.


advertisement


Back
Top