Hybrid car advice

[Ponty]

IMHO, if you are looking at EV’s (or even hybrid) don’t sink 20K of your own money into it, lease one instead. To give you an idea:

https://www.gateway2lease.com/car-leasing/electric

https://freedomcontracts.com/

 

[canonman]

@ks.234. I had one of those as a company car complete with the Burmester so on and so forth. So did several of my colleagues. They were all unreliable, unpleasant to drive, had unpredictable braking, unpredictable acceleration, lumpy handling and poor range. Some how the car is simultaneously large on the outside and small on this inside (like a sh*te tardis). The boot is small. The boot had a mind of its own…it wasn’t unusual to come back to the car to find the boot wide open. You won’t get 19 miles out of it. I thought the Burmestrer was deeply underwhelming. The navigation was the work of the devil. The telemetry was a pathological liar. Other than all that, it was great…..You’ll get a 62 kWH Leaf for your budget.

Nothing like the cars I have owned. Don't recognise any of that. Are you sure it wasn't a BMW?

 

[MikeMA]

Drive a modern one and you'll see. Lots of low down, easy performance from a small engine, great economy around town, you have saved enough on fuel that it it hands you a bill for batteries after 80k miles you are still in front.

This^^^^.

The taxi drivers round my way way love their Toyota hybrids.The last one I was chatting to reckoned he was saving something like 20% on his fuel bills, compared with his old ICE version. The biggest taxi outfit here is 100 Toyota Hybrid.

If I was regularly driving longish distances a hybrid is what I'd go for. As it is I only do shortish distances these days and a Fiat 500 EV on some sort of leasing deal would suit me down to the ground.

 

[Martin M]

@canonman At least it didn't burst into flames!...(but it did have a fuel leak, I thought the cars in front was running a bit rich and arrived at work a bit woozy for a while). Did you have a C350e?

 

[ks.234]

I have seen a Jaguar I pace that I can afford. It’s fully electric obviously, but it has done 50,000 miles.

Is this high miles for an electric? Will the battery be compromised like on an old phone? Is there an easy way to check battery health like on IPhone?

Anything else I should look out for on an older electric?

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

Early iPaces had issues, resolved on more recent (from late 2022) models. Worth a little delve into the forums.

 

[Ponty]

Lots of car specific forums which will reveal all.

As with any used car which was very expensive when new, if you can’t afford to buy 2, you can’t afford to run 1. If I were in the market to buy a used EV, can’t help thinking a Tesla 3 for similar money would be the best option, for the charging network alone.

 

[cutting42]

I have seen a Jaguar I pace that I can afford. It’s fully electric obviously, but it has done 50,000 miles.

Is this high miles for an electric? Will the battery be compromised like on an old phone? Is there an easy way to check battery health like on IPhone?

Anything else I should look out for on an older electric?

Watch this video, covers EV battery life really well. In short no, a 50k battery is not a problem.

 

[cutting42]

Lots of car specific forums which will reveal all.

As with any used car which was very expensive when new, if you can’t afford to buy 2, you can’t afford to run 1. If I were in the market to buy a used EV, can’t help thinking a Tesla 3 for similar money would be the best option, for the charging network alone.

I think the jury is still out with BEV. The regular maintenance costs of a Ferrari/Aston Martin etc that make a £20k supercar still a £200k supercar when fixing them are largely missing. No regular engine/gearbox maintenance for a start. That said my Tesla M3 had a £1200 replacement headlamp unit which stung a bit.

 

[Ponty]

I think the jury is still out with BEV. The regular maintenance costs of a Ferrari/Aston Martin etc that make a £20k supercar still a £200k supercar when fixing them are largely missing. No regular engine/gearbox maintenance for a start. That said my Tesla M3 had a £1200 replacement headlamp unit which stung a bit.

I’d call 1200 for a headlamp stratospheric running costs! How much do they charge when its iPad, or wiring loom packs up? They’re just a different set of running costs instead of head gaskets etc, as yet not fully known.

 

[cutting42]

I’d call 1200 for a headlamp stratospheric running costs! How much do they charge when its iPad, or wiring loom packs up? They’re just a different set of running costs instead of head gaskets etc, as yet not fully known.

So would I, it was ridiculous and this is a mid market car not a particularly expensive one (the Model 3 starts at £43k very similar to the 3 series/A4/Class starting point). My point was BEV maint costs in themselves are a bit of an unknown, car companies overcharging for spare parts is definitely still a thing and Tesla are up there with the best.

My companies only costs in nearly 3 years have been some tyres, that headlight (branch on the motorway I hit) and a cracked wheel rim (I think it was cracked from new but Tesla blamed me). There were no other costs or servicing so running costs once you exclude accidental damage have been just tyres.

 

[Seeker_UK]

I’d call 1200 for a headlamp stratospheric running costs!

That's standard cost for a BMW or MB LED unit.

The difference is you can buy alternatives for less - AFAICT, Tesla don't licence others to make spares

 

[Ponty]

So would I, it was ridiculous and this is a mid market car not a particularly expensive one (the Model 3 starts at £43k very similar to the 3 series/A4/Class starting point). My point was BEV maint costs in themselves are a bit of an unknown, car companies overcharging for spare parts is definitely still a thing and Tesla are up there with the best.

My companies only costs in nearly 3 years have been some tyres, that headlight (branch on the motorway I hit) and a cracked wheel rim (I think it was cracked from new but Tesla blamed me). There were no other costs or servicing so running costs once you exclude accidental damage have been just tyres.

Yes, for the first owner under warranty, it’s all fine and dandy. Even many ICE cars will come with a servicing package so it’s just tyres (or not if low mileage) for the initial PCP or lease term. The cost to fix / replace parts after that will be a voyage of discovery with a few big shocks along the way I suspect.

 

[Ponty]

That's standard cost for a BMW or MB LED unit.

The difference is you can buy alternatives for less - AFAICT, Tesla don't licence others to make spares

Indeed. OEM parts all the way. I suppose eventually there will be EV specialist workshops who’ll be able to fix the common issues for a fraction of the main stealer cost.

 

[Seeker_UK]

Indeed. OEM parts all the way. I suppose eventually there will be EV specialist workshops who’ll be able to fix the common issues for a fraction of the main stealer cost.

Yes - there's a chap set up his business not far from me who conducts (and warranties) repairs to EV batteries for a lot less than manufacturer's full replace.

Tesla might be tricky as they are notorious for making life difficult for people to fix their cars.

 

[Ponty]

Yes - there's a chap set up his business not far from me who conducts (and warranties) repairs to EV batteries for a lot less than manufacturer's full replace.

Tesla might be tricky as they are notorious for making life difficult for people to fix their cars.

Encouraging. I’d imagine all sorts of bespoke software code being written into cars by manufacturers to ensure they have you over a barrel!

 

[cutting42]

Encouraging. I’d imagine all sorts of bespoke software code being written into cars by manufacturers to ensure they have you over a barrel!

Not worried about that, the codes always get cracked. All the OEM can do is withhold warranties and usually they are fully expired by then. The biggest challenge would be fully integrated batteries where they are built into the structure of the car in such a way they are impractical to replace.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

AFAIK most, if not all EV batteries are built with an eye to eventual replacement, if not of the entire battery then of individual cells, due to the expectation that cells will fail, in time. I doubt any manufacturer integrates them in such as way as to make them inaccessible.

 

[Seeker_UK]

The biggest challenge would be fully integrated batteries where they are built into the structure of the car in such a way they are impractical to replace.

The trend is towards a standardised cell design (GM is investing billions to do this) but until this becomes common across the industry, it may be prohibitively expensive for indies to set up to cover all vehicle types.

 

[cutting42]

AFAIK most, if not all EV batteries are built with an eye to eventual replacement, if not of the entire battery then of individual cells, due to the expectation that cells will fail, in time. I doubt any manufacturer integrates them in such as way as to make them inaccessible.

Agreed, I didn't mean totally inaccessible, more a case of bespoke configs making it hard for 3rd parties to cope with all the variations

The trend is towards a standardised cell design (GM is investing billions to do this) but until this becomes common across the industry, it may be prohibitively expensive for indies to set up to cover all vehicle types.

Indeed, I hope so and am pleased to hear this.