How to be a better listener....

[sq225917]

I really am about as far from SG's musical point of view as I think its possible to be. I like the 'sound' of music, the interplay of tone, timbre, phrasing and counterpoint; I like the mechanics of the sound the same way I value a piece of efficient engineering. I find no romance in it, no emotional connection to the artists. Music unfolds to me the same way I see a story structure opening up when I read a book, it's an entirely cerebral thing, theres no connection to the artists just like there's no connection to the characters in a book, they're just constructs.

 

[Darren L]

I really am about as far from SG's musical point of view as I think its possible to be. I like the 'sound' of music, the interplay of tone, timbre, phrasing and counterpoint; I like the mechanics of the sound the same way I value a piece of efficient engineering. I find no romance in it, no emotional connection to the artists. Music unfolds to me the same way I see a story structure opening up when I read a book, it's an entirely cerebral thing, theres no connection to the artists just like there's no connection to the characters in a book, they're just constructs.

Interesting, I've never heard anyone put it like that before, although I understand the 'players in the room' ideal for me personally it's always been about the emotional content of the music or song, regardless of the equipment used to play the recording if I don't feel it, it really isn't worth listening too.

 

[hockman]

I am skeptical of ‘tips’ on how to listen. More often than not the whole process spoils your musical enjoyment rather than enhances it.

What’s the point?

 

[brab]

It's nearer 10%. A cutoff at 8k means that you're missing the top octave and a bit. For most people 'of a certain' age' it'll be less than an octave.

Edit, I see SP-T got there first.

I can't do the math, but if you incorporate Fletcher Munson the percentage drops even further.

 

[GT]

So you’re a proponent now of audio reproduction that misses 60% of human range?

You tell me...

 

[sq225917]

10 foot tall girl and guitar played at the far end of a cardboard corridor.

 

[booja30]

That made me think of the time my great aunt gave me a battery powered radio that came with a magazine subscription and I duct taped it to the small end of a traffic cone. It was surprisingly loud! But it still sounded like a battery powered radio that came with a magazine subscription.

 

[seethroughyou]

This is a case in point of audiophiles not only even the same ballpark but positively in a different universe, proposing and extolling WE horns or large horns of any kind. This ‘hobby’ is losing peers faster than the medieval plague and we have out of touch older folk here proposing horns the antisocial size of a 747 tail wing as a sensible solution in an average European home. I have heard Cessaros that GT waxes lyrical about and there is nothing realistic about the sound with its squawky 10 foot high sound. Speakers of this type cost astronomical amounts of money. The horns are pretty much the reserve of eccentric millionaires who live in the Far East. Don’t get me started on the condescending attitude of these self appointed audiophiles telling us that we can’t listen and can’t hear like these golden eared know it all gurus of sound. First you say that above 8k is not meaningful yet you spend >£100,000 on speakers for your own home with very pricey compression tweeters. Why not just disconnect your tweeters and super tweeters. You can’t have it both ways, saying there’s no point in greater than 8k but then try and flog oligarch expensive horns with their expensive tweeters that go all the way up to 45000hz...

 

[dudywoxer]

How many need to be told how to listen, or what to listen for. Music replay is quite simple to me, it lets me park my arse in a comfy chair, sit back, relax and loose myself in music. I may be lucky, but I appear to not need ''boutique'' brands, and ''boutique'' price levels, or self opinionated gurus holding my hand every step of the way.

 

[Tony L]

How many need to be told how to listen, or what to listen for. Music replay is quite simple to me, it lets me park my arse in a comfy chair, sit back, relax and loose myself in music.

This is the reason it gets so much discussion! What works for you in that remit may not for someone else, e.g. see the tirade against horns above. The simple indisputable fact is we are all listening for different things, like different things, and have entirely different frames of reference both musically and sonically. Some folk are trying to recreate the feeling of a pub gig, some a concert hall, some a studio control room, some an abstracted straight line on an oscilloscope regardless of what it sounds like. No right answers to be found here other than for that particular listener (or measurer!) in their own space.

 

[tuga]

As I understood what SG was saying, a large part of the realism that a hi-fi system is capable of conveying comes from the size of the auditory scene it creates.

If you accept that argument (some will and some won’t), then IME his preference for OB and panel speakers makes perfect sense.

Yep, some panel speakers can make a violin appear 6ft tall.

 

[Tony L]

Yep, some panel speakers can make a violin appear 6ft tall.

...and some box speakers can make a orchestra, piano or bass drum sound tiny!

One thing that does amuse me is the countless small to mid-sized speakers asked to fill too a large room (i.e. when not used nearfield and at very moderate SPLs) give a bizarre mixed-size perspective of life-sized voice and sax, tiny piano, tiny bassist, tiny kick-dum etc.

 

[tuga]

...and some box speakers can make a orchestra, piano or bass drum sound tiny!

One thing that does amuse me is the countless small to mid-sized speakers asked to fill too a large room (i.e. when not used nearfield and at very moderate SPLs) give a bizarre mixed-size perspective of life-sized voice and sax, tiny piano, tiny bassist, tiny kick-dum etc.

I agree.
I'm quite vocal about the subject of small speakers. Their shortcomings are too taxing.

 

[Roger Adams]

My personal advice for becoming a better listener is to simply listen to your favourite music - no one else.

 

[Tony L]

I'm quite vocal about the subject of small speakers. Their shortcomings are too taxing.

They have a context where they can be superb, the problem is far too many people seem to think they can go loud in a largish room. Small speakers at a sensible level in a nearfield context can be stunningly good IME. Some of the best sound I've ever heard regardless of cost is from well setup mini-monitors.

PS By ‘small’ I’m talking about anything with less than say a 12” bass unit.

 

[tuga]

They have a context where they can be superb, the problem is far too many people seem to think they can go loud in a largish room. Small speakers at a sensible level in a nearfield context can be stunningly good IME. Some of the best sound I've ever heard regardless of cost is from well setup mini-monitors.

PS By ‘small’ I’m talking about anything with less than say a 12” bass unit.

By small I was referring to LS3/5a-sized.

It's nice to have a large cabinet and woofer but not at the expense of other parameters which are just as important (if you listen to orchestral music).

 

[Alex S]

We're lost in music
Caught in a trap
No turnin' back
We're lost in music
We're lost in music
Feel so alive
I quit my nine to five
We're lost in music
Have you ever seen some people lose everything
First to go is their mind
Etc

 

[mattgbell]

They have a context where they can be superb, the problem is far too many people seem to think they can go loud in a largish room. Small speakers at a sensible level in a nearfield context can be stunningly good IME. Some of the best sound I've ever heard regardless of cost is from well setup mini-monitors.

PS By ‘small’ I’m talking about anything with less than say a 12” bass unit.

Yes. The best I've ever heard the Harbeth SHL5s was at moderate volume in a near-field set-up in a small space. They were excellent. But I've heard them absolutely fall to pieces playing loud in a large room.

 

[Tony L]

Yes. The best I've ever heard the Harbeth SHL5s was at moderate volume in a near-field set-up in a small space. They were excellent. But I've heard them absolutely fall to pieces playing loud in a large room.

I suspect my ‘issue’ here is I know exactly what a speaker running out of steam sounds like as I’ve some experience of pro-audio, guitar amps, bass amps etc. I tend to hear that slight edge, compression and ‘shout’ coming long before it is obvious to many hi-fi folk, some of whom actually seem to confuse it with punch ‘dynamic hit’ or whatever. I’d argue 2-way hi-fi speakers are the easiest to spot as once the bass-mid unit starts making wild excursions the crossover region goes to hell in a handcart I assume as the upper end is coming from a relatively stable location and the lower range bobbing in and out by a cm or more. Some argue there is a ‘Doppler’ distortion applicable here too, e.g. it actually has an adverse impact on pitch.

Again, the last thing I am doing here is criticising small speakers, as stated above I love them! What I have issue with is small speakers being played too loud or being asked to fill too a large room. If you can detect the slightest edge, strain or compression/limiting you need bigger speakers!

 

[matt j]

Yes. The best I've ever heard the Harbeth SHL5s was at moderate volume in a near-field set-up in a small space. They were excellent. But I've heard them absolutely fall to pieces playing loud in a large room.

To be honest, to me everything sounds crap when it's loud. I've never heard a single system sound good at loud levels, but obviously that's just me and what I don't like, I wouldn't just pan someone's system if their goal is to reproduce Lez Zep at Knebworth or something.