Housing market

[Joe Hutch]

The problem with housing type threads on PFM is that nobody ever really acknowledges that much of the PFM demographic is broadly the lottery ticket winning generations (boomers and first half of gen x) and we all lived through the most beneficial demographic and financial changes. It's all about how hard everyone worked and how brilliantly they managed to invest in the most sustained major asset class growth period in history just by getting somewhere to live.

I did pretty much everything I could to **** up the advantages of being born at the right time (1967) and still ended up ok. Mid-60s is in fact the sweet spot as it means both me and my parents had an order of magnitude advantage over people born after about 1980. We also got to live though the peak carbon burning years and now can avoid paying for it as we pass it on to our children.

This is fascinating on how demographics have changed and effected both wealth and earnings. Also interesting that someone like Willets who was in government as recently as 2014 but would probably now be viewed as come kind of communist and sent to the back benches.

I always feel slightly embarrassed by the tales of people who started with nowt and, by sheer bloody graft they now own hundreds of properties, have millions invested blah blah blah.

This is partly because, as you say, my generation was extremely fortunate compared to both my parents’ generation and my children’s generation. It’s also partly because I didn’t bother with the sheer hard graft bit, and have got where I am through dumb luck and a couple of sensible decisions in my 20s (buy a flat in a nice area, start paying into a pension scheme as early as possible).

 

[paulfromcamden]

I think my kids have been far luckier than me in other ways.

In what ways? (Not saying you're wrong)

 

[Ponty]

we offered on a place this week ... been stagnating on the market for 2 years ... the sellers bit our hand off at under the asking price . wish it was always like that !!!

Good work. If something hasn’t sold in the past 2 years, the only reason is price (unless it’s Fred West’s old house etc).

 

[Woodface]

In what ways? (Not saying you're wrong)

More supportive & educated parents, more money, opportunities for travel, more material possessions, the internet etc etc

My son did far better than me at school & college, has just finished a law degree as opposed to my lowly social studies one. My children have wanted for nothing really whereas I was always aware of money being tight & this narrowed my horizons.

Ultimately my parents did their best but I didn’t have the comfortable middle class upbringing my children have enjoyed.

I think each generation has its challenges. My dad worked in a factory for 50 odd years, has life changing ailments but does own his own house. So you think he feels lucky? He was born in 1946. His dad fought in WW2, nearly killed a few times, ended up doing pretty well for himself but left with long term PTSD; he probably didn’t feel that lucky either.

I managed to scrape enough qualifications to get to a low level Uni, this definitely changed my life chances. These advantages have been passed on to my children.

More to life than property when it comes to generational advantage.

 

[JensenHealey]

Here in the W Mids, to the west of boom Birmingham, I have seen that many of the more expensive properties are now sticking. Indeed one at the end of our road, we know the owners quite well, have reduced their asking price now by over £100K. Another friend with a £750K house on the market is seeing very little interest, he was telling me the other day. And yet another friend with a high £700k house about to go on the the market is going to struggle I reckon. North of £700k around here is quite a lot and anyone needing a mortgage as part of that will be looking at the rising interest rates and taking stock. That and the likely cost of moving from one house to another (50k odd at that level, allowing for some carpets and curtain changes) is going to weigh heavily on the market I would think.

The sub 400K estate houses do seem to move quite quickly still.

 

[Darth Vader]

They haven't sold it yet

Indeed! We had a valid offer on our holiday pad but when the buyers went for a mortgage they were offered one but the interest rate was so high that they couldn't then afford it! Don't count chickens etc........

DV

 

[gintonic]

In other news John Lewis is to start building housing above it's stores. Property development is the only game in town.

old news - they have been a flat landlord for decades. A close friend of mine has been renting an apartment above our local JL for about 15 years. Along with the apartment complex they used to have sporting and social facilities....

 

[Mike Reed]

My dad .......... was born in 1946. His dad fought in WW2, nearly killed a few times.

My dad was on the Western Front (1917), was blown up and gassed, but struggled through to 93, not really achieving much except two batches of children 15/16 years apart. He was on air raid observation duties when my stork was shot down by an ME 109 over Maidstone as an immediate retaliation to losing the Battle of Britain.

Climbing the property ladder was just as challenged at the time, but hindsight compartmentalises those steps as lucky, unlucky or whatever. However, stringent mortgage rules, relatively high interest rates and the odd recession in the 70s and after tend to be swept under the carpet. Getting a land-line installed (by B.T.) was a long bureaucratic wait and communication was by letter. Now, who cares about land-lines; or letters?

 

[wulbert]

old news - they have been a flat landlord for decades. A close friend of mine has been renting an apartment above our local JL for about 15 years. Along with the apartment complex they used to have sporting and social facilities....

That's strange. I wonder why it was on the BBC Radio 4 news bulletin this morning? Someone doing JL a free advert perhaps. Maybe I misheard and they are converting actual stores into flats.

 

[hifinutt]

Good work. If something hasn’t sold in the past 2 years, the only reason is price (unless it’s Fred West’s old house etc).

yes it was overpriced but also being retirement housing it can take a while to sell

 

[hifinutt]

Here in the W Mids, to the west of boom Birmingham, I have seen that many of the more expensive properties are now sticking. Indeed one at the end of our road, we know the owners quite well, have reduced their asking price now by over £100K. Another friend with a £750K house on the market is seeing very little interest, he was telling me the other day. And yet another friend with a high £700k house about to go on the the market is going to struggle I reckon. North of £700k around here is quite a lot and anyone needing a mortgage as part of that will be looking at the rising interest rates and taking stock. That and the likely cost of moving from one house to another (50k odd at that level, allowing for some carpets and curtain changes) is going to weigh heavily on the market I would think.

The sub 400K estate houses do seem to move quite quickly still.

lovely to have another brummie here !! i know the west of birmingham quite well . as you say sub 400 stuff goes fast . took me many months to get a house for a friend . sometimes up to 50 people after one house in Northfield where prices can be a bit more realistic

 

[hifinutt]

My dad was on the Western Front (1917), was blown up and gassed, but struggled through to 93, not really achieving much except two batches of children 15/16 years apart. He was on air raid observation duties when my stork was shot down by an ME 109 over Maidstone as an immediate retaliation to losing the Battle of Britain.

Climbing the property ladder was just as challenged at the time, but hindsight compartmentalises those steps as lucky, unlucky or whatever. However, stringent mortgage rules, relatively high interest rates and the odd recession in the 70s and after tend to be swept under the carpet. Getting a land-line installed (by B.T.) was a long bureaucratic wait and communication was by letter. Now, who cares about land-lines; or letters?

yes and ironic they will soon abolish landlines !!

 

[matthewr]

I think each generation has its challenges. My dad worked in a factory for 50 odd years, ... More to life than property when it comes to generational advantage.

Of course each generation generally has it better than the previous one in all sorts of ways and life generally gets better and easier as the economy grows, productivity improves, technology advances and so on.

But that's different from the generational advantages people born between (roughly) 1945 and 1975 have enjoyed which gave them significant benefits in living space, personal wealth, lifetime earnings, pension wealth, etc. etc. which no amount of hard work and ability could overcome. Of course we are talking about averages and population effects rather than individual cases but overall the boomer / gen x generations have had it much easier compared to the generations before and after.

 

[Woodface]

Of course each generation generally has it better than the previous one in all sorts of ways and life generally gets better and easier as the economy grows, productivity improves, technology advances and so on.

But that's different from the generational advantages people born between (roughly) 1945 and 1975 have enjoyed which gave them significant benefits in living space, personal wealth, lifetime earnings, pension wealth, etc. etc. which no amount of hard work and ability could overcome. Of course we are talking about averages and population effects rather than individual cases but overall the boomer / gen x generations have had it much easier compared to the generations before and after.

I think you are contradicting yourself.

This generation also wants different things, more about experiences than possessions & this is also a factor. I didn’t go abroad from the ages of 15 to 24, my honeymoon was spent in Weymouth. I work in media so probably not representative but many people 10-15 years younger than me seem to have different priorities.

I don’t think deferred gratification is a thing anymore & London certainly distorts the general picture.

I don’t think you can define a generation purely in relation to whether they are on the property ladder.

 

[Michael J]

I don’t think you can define a generation purely in relation to whether they are on the property ladder.

Forty years of governments appear to have done so.

 

[Darth Vader]

lovely to have another brummie here !! i know the west of birmingham quite well . as you say sub 400 stuff goes fast . took me many months to get a house for a friend . sometimes up to 50 people after one house in Northfield where prices can be a bit more realistic

Hmmm. What if I said Harborne, Northfield, West Heath and Turves Green? Oh and on tother side Perry Barr, Great Barr and Castle Bromwich?

Small World.

DV

 

[laughingboy]

This generation also wants different things, more about experiences than possessions & this is also a factor. I didn’t go abroad from the ages of 15 to 24, my honeymoon was spent in Weymouth. I work in media so probably not representative but many people 10-15 years younger than me seem to have different priorities.

I don’t think deferred gratification is a thing anymore & London certainly distorts the general picture.

I don’t think you can define a generation purely in relation to whether they are on the property ladder.

The Resolution Foundation is a good source of info on this. See here.

"Popular narratives sometimes imply that measuring incomes misses some of what is really going on, with millennials losing out, in truth, because of their excessive spending. But the evidence on spending reinforces the wider findings: in 2001, 25-34-year-olds were consuming the same as 55-64-year-olds; they are now spending 15 per cent less."

 

[AnilS]

Hmmm. What if I said Harborne, Northfield, West Heath and Turves Green? Oh and on tother side Perry Barr, Great Barr and Castle Bromwich?

Small World.

DV

Blimey DV. You get about!

Lived in Oldbury, then Quinton, now Bromsgrove.

 

[Woodface]

The Resolution Foundation is a good source of info on this. See here.

"Popular narratives sometimes imply that measuring incomes misses some of what is really going on, with millennials losing out, in truth, because of their excessive spending. But the evidence on spending reinforces the wider findings: in 2001, 25-34-year-olds were consuming the same as 55-64-year-olds; they are now spending 15 per cent less."

It’s an interesting point. How do they define ‘spend’, is this excluding bills/rent/mortgage?

It’s odd, I can only assume my peer group is massively unrepresentative. Most of my pals in the cycling club range in age from 30-55, they are all home owners, with many of the younger ones living in grander houses than I do. They range in occupations from joiners, sparkles to Barristers & Doctors. Young teachers at my wife’s school seem to manage also, probably easier up north?

 

[JensenHealey]

lovely to have another brummie here !! i know the west of birmingham quite well . as you say sub 400 stuff goes fast . took me many months to get a house for a friend . sometimes up to 50 people after one house in Northfield where prices can be a bit more realistic

Actually, I am in N. Worcestershire in the Severn Valley - out where many of the Harborne or Edgbaston crew move to when they start a family.
I used to daily commute to near the Cricket Ground - but for the last 35 years have been based local to me. Now some people in my town commute to London! - although not every day.