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Housing market

Darren L said:
just because a higher degree or education isn't required to do a task should not mean a vastly lower earnings .
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Not sure about 'vastly', Darren, but for someone to strive at school, pay their way (and put themselves in hoc for decades) through uni, one would expect some reward commensurate with their educational journey. Doctors, e.g., are extremely well paid (mainly because of a government/BMA cock-up)_ but they've gone through 6 or 7 years of training. It's all relative and I see no inequality. I've done menial, grafting jobs (cable-jointing, e.g.) as well as professional. It's all income to be saved/invested or wasted as one sees fit.
 
stevec67 said:
Everybody likes virtue signalling provided it doesn't cost them money. This thread is about housing and related matters, I don't see anyone queuing up to pay more to live in a smaller house if that's what it takes to level up the market.
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is it virtue signalling to want the housing market to level up? Isn't it just common sense to have a stable housing market in which turbulence is mitigated against as far as possible?

One thing is for absolute sure is that we are not mitigating turbulence anywhere near as far as possible at this moment in time, and haven't done for decades. In some areas we appear to be going backwards.

The past is catching up with us!
 
Mike Reed said:
Not sure about 'vastly', Darren, but for someone to strive at school, pay their way (and put themselves in hoc for decades) through uni, one would expect some reward commensurate with their educational journey. Doctors, e.g., are extremely well paid (mainly because of a government/BMA cock-up)_ but they've gone through 6 or 7 years of training. It's all relative and I see no inequality. I've done menial, grafting jobs (cable-jointing, e.g.) as well as professional. It's all income to be saved/invested or wasted as one sees fit.
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Should those who enter and complete higher education pay for it? AFAIK there used to be a grant/ reward system which has now converted to a loan system.
Does the reward need to be monetary? Is the achievement and occupation not reward in itself?
Or perhaps that's the way it should be?
Whilst perhaps idealistic I think that our current capitalist monetary system is at the very foundations of every fault found in our society.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
Binmen are badly paid because the people who run the firms which employ them have decided that's how it's going to be.
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The pay is basically whatever they would have to pay to replace you. It's cheaper to replace a binman than a GP because there are more potential binmen than GPs. Even though both jobs are somewhat unpleasant (to my mind).

Now back in the days of powerful unions and worker solidarity...
 
Are all tories the same? just think about themselves. As long as i'm doing well and feck the rest of use?. Do any tories have morals? I wish serious harm on these people and hope they suffer pain in every form of the word.
 
sean99 said:
While I agree somewhat I do wonder whether the problem is not so much the welfare state - which has existed for a long time, and is not currently much of an incentive since it's pretty feeble in the UK and US. I wonder if a bigger problem is younger people looking at the cost of basic living (housing, education, healthcare in the US) and deciding that they may never be able to be comfortable or financially stable, so why even bother to try. The US and UK must be pretty depressing places to be young, unless you were fortunate to be born into affluence, or with the mental abilities to land a high paying job.
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I can see what you’re saying to a degree. However, in terms of housing, they’ve always been bloody expensive. The capital cost has almost become irrelevant, it’s the monthly which matters which in turn has inflated the capital cost due to ZIRP. Just compare a typical monthly mortgage cost relative to salary over the decades.
 
matt j said:
Welfare state? Lol, It's about 75 quid a week, places like Sweden pay 80% of you last wage for the first 6 months, I don't think they're all "benefit scroungers" as a result.

We've been brainwashed here, and a lot of folks are only too happy to lap it up.

Not like my day, kids up chimneys, workhouses etc. Yawn.
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It’s not £75 a week though is it, it’s a culmination of multiple benefits. You do realise that housing benefit effectively sets a house price floor in many areas which underpins the market in which private buyers are competing.
 
Ponty said:
I can see what you’re saying to a degree. However, in terms of housing, they’ve always been bloody expensive. The capital cost has almost become irrelevant, it’s the monthly which matters which in turn has inflated the capital cost due to ZIRP. Just compare a typical monthly mortgage cost relative to salary over the decades.
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The monthly payment may not have risen to the same degree, but the deposit amount has risen astronomically in the last 20 years, as has stamp duty.
 
Ponty said:
It’s not £75 a week though is it, it’s a culmination of multiple benefits. You do realise that housing benefit effectively sets a house price floor in many areas which underpins the market in which private buyers are competing.
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Could you live on it?

It's a joke and always has been, it's sole purpose is to tip people into whatever job is going, even if the job doesn't cover the cost of living. So much for the Tory mantra of "making work pay" and the old bollocks about "levelling up".
 
ks.234 said:
is it virtue signalling to want the housing market to level up? Isn't it just common sense to have a stable housing market in which turbulence is mitigated against as far as possible?

One thing is for absolute sure is that we are not mitigating turbulence anywhere near as far as possible at this moment in time, and haven't done for decades. In some areas we appear to be going backwards.

The past is catching up with us!
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No, but bashing a pan on the doorstep so your neighbours can see and doing FA else certainly is.
 
Darren L said:
I certainly wouldn't and I'm not suggesting that any employer would or should employ anyone who is not able, willing and reliable. Though perhaps a percentage of the unemployed would be able, willing and reliable if given the opportunity and a decent wage.
I don't really understand what you're getting at with your second question, I don't know of anyone who gets paid by an employer for being unable, unwilling or can't be bothered. Maybe this happens in other industries but they wouldn't last until 10 o'clock tea break with that attitude in my experience.
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The second question follows the first. You have said that you certainly wouldn't employ someone who wasn't able and willing, it follows that nobody has the right to be employed and paid if they are not. As you say, they wouldn't make it to 10 o clock. These people fall into the class of unemployable, not unemployed.
 
sean99 said:
The monthly payment may not have risen to the same degree, but the deposit amount has risen astronomically in the last 20 years, as has stamp duty.
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Sometimes you may be able to get a 100% mortgage today but these were not available when I bought my first house. Also the mortgage multiplier was 3.5 times salary plus an additional 1 for a working spouse. It can be argued whether it was more difficult for me and my wife to get on the housing ladder 50 years ago or young people today outside London. It was hard for us then and we were both graduates in a teaching job.

DV
 
Ponty said:
The capital cost has almost become irrelevant, it’s the monthly which matters which in turn has inflated the capital cost due to ZIRP.
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Genuine question (and apologies if I've missed your point because I haven't followed this thread properly); is the inflation of the capital cost of a house down to ZIRP? I remember having a T-Shirt in the mid 80's saying, "I don't give a f*ck how much your house is worth" well before before ZIRP. Isn't house price inflation a feature of a longer continuum than post 2008?
 
Just done a little calculation, my parents bought a house in 1971 for about £2000. The one next door recently sold for about £220000, so by my reckoning in 50 years their property has increased in value x110. Now we’ve been in ours getting on for 20 years, it’s probably not quite doubled in value. If it did what my parents house did my kids would be looking at a windfall of about 20 million in 20 years or so…

There’s a great willingness from those who’ve found themselves wealthy slightly fortuitously, and I’d include my parent’s generation in that, to blame those who haven’t been so lucky as feckless especially those bumping along the bottom. I fear my kids will never get on the property ladder, not unless I am able to give them a shove. The free higher education most of us enjoyed, it’s not for them. My daughter wants to go to Loughborough. I reckon it’s about 50/60k of debt she’s looking at. There are those amongst us who have become wealthy who are happy to pull up the ladder on the young.
 
ks.234 said:
...not sure what that is supposed to mean, but it sounds aggressive...
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Remember the days of bashing a pan for the nhs on Thursday nights? It wasn't long ago. Virtue signalling at its best, as we all went back indoors 5 minutes later.
 
stevec67 said:
No, but bashing a pan on the doorstep so your neighbours can see and doing FA else certainly is.
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I mentioned the pan-bashing to illustrate that, when the chips are down, we know who the people are who keep the wheels on in our society, and it isn't the office workers like me. And the iniquitous thing is that it is mostly people who are, by any standards, poorly paid.
 
stevec67 said:
Your assertion that employment shortage can be solved simply by raising pay certainly is.
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In an economy built on depressing wage demands with millions of people unemployed and many, many more underemployed, any employment shortage will be down to a pay issue.
 
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