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Hong Kong

richardg

richardg

Admonishtrator
What is the pfm view, please? I was under the impression that in 1997 the agreement was that the UK could still intervene if the Chinese got a bit too dictatorial over the following years. It seems they have and now the Chinese ambassador here is saying some silly stuff about the UK.
 
Haven't we got an aircraft carrier with no planes? Plus of course the people of Hong Kong are the direct descendents of HM Queen and Phil. Everybody there looks like them.

Jack
 
Unfortunately [or perhaps fortunately if you accept that the UK is far from being a World Power since Suez in the 1950s] we not in any position to face off anyone very much these days. The Chinese will do what they like and the UK will make a fuss, and then the Chinese will get their way.

Anyone who could not see that in 1997 must have been blind to the reality.

Best wishes from George
 
Goodness me, what could we do? Start a Falklands style invasion! I assume that you don't want us to call on the USA in what might well turn into WW III?

Military force is not going to do it as we would be roundly beaten, and we no longer have the moral clout we did in 1945; that was deeply undermined in military style over Suez not long after. No chance of the UK bringing any pressure at all diplomatically or even economically on China without even the thought that any economic sanctions would be absolutely ruinous for us - far more than the Chinese. More like banging our head on a brick wall.

Best wishes from George
 
It plays well to the nostalgia Gammon though. The fireplace salesman sending a solitary little ship ( which luckily wasn’t sunk) and Hunt threatening a country of 1.4bn people. Best forget all about it.
 
TheDecameron said:
It plays well to the nostalgia Gammon though. The fireplace salesman sending a solitary little ship ( which luckily wasn’t sunk) and Hunt threatening a country of 1.4bn people. Best forget all about it.
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The Brexiteers will be clamouring for us to fire a nuke at China, cheered on by Johnson, Hunt, Farage and Yaxley Lennon.

Jack
 
George J said:
Goodness me, what could we do? Start a Falklands style invasion! I assume that you don't want us to call on the USA in what might well turn into WW III?

Military force is not going to do it as we would be roundly beaten, and we no longer have the moral clout we did in 1945; that was deeply undermined in military style over Suez not long after. No chance of the UK bringing any pressure at all diplomatically or even economically on China without even the thought that any economic sanctions would be absolutely ruinous for us - far more than the Chinese. More like banging our head on a brick wall.

Best wishes from George
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Issue passports?
 
The Honk Kong situation was going to unravel eventually. Some thought two or three generations. These people have shown to be overly optimistic.

No State is going to put up with "One Nation Two Legal Systems" forever. And I don't expect that China would be expected to have acted any other way even when the Honk Kong deal for its return to Chinese status was still wet ink on paper.

Of course we could start the Third and last War over it. How much sense would that make?

Best wishes from George
 
richgilb said:
Issue passports?
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Of course that would be an option. But I wonder which political party in UK thinks it stands a cat in Hell's chance of winning an election after that? The reality is has been plain for more than twenty years.

I am not saying what is right or wrong, but only considering realities.

Best wishes from George
 
George J said:
The Honk Kong situation was going to unravel eventually. Some thought two or three generations. These people have shown to be overly optimistic.

No State is going to put up with One Nation Two Legal Systems" forever. And I don't expect that China would be expected to have acted any other way even when the Honk Kong deal for its return to Chinese status was still wet ink on paper.

Of course we could start the Third and last War over it. How much sense would that make?

Best wishes from George
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I do not think anyone anywhere is talking about flexing muscles. As I said, the UK might reach out by issuing UK passports to people at risk of getting into, or already in, trouble...just a thought. I am quite clear, as we all probably are, that violence and trade sanctions are probably not the way forward.

It seems to me that more pragmatic touches like this would help diffuse the situation and give China something to think about.
 
I assume - perhaps wrongly - that if things progress badly the option exists today for allowing Political Asylum to those at risk of persecution. I doubt that would even be controversial.

Best wishes from George
 
We 'threaten' China.. yet there are some here who are desperate to attract 'Chinese Investment'.

Some of us really aren't thinking this through.....
 
Exactly. How's that post-Brexit trade deal looking with China? I'm sure it'll all go splendidly.
 
richgilb said:
Issue passports?
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Ha! Someone I was speaking to yesterday made the same suggestion- give all HK residents British passports. Britain can hardly lecture China on democracy since Britain never permitted one person one vote democracy ever in HK but told the Chinese they should when they finally handed it over. Also,sending a frigate to threaten China is an unfortunate echo of gunboat diplomacy obviously lost on the clown stick Gavin Williamson. What next- traffic hundreds of tonnes of heroin into China?
 
It's a chinese issue, let the chinese sort it. We can offer refugee status to anyone who meets the criteria. Residents of hong Kong were British nationals but not British citizens.
 
I used to live in Hong Kong and was their during the handover in 1997 (it was a fantastic party that night). That was a long, long time ago and I don't really see the UK having a significant role to play in HK politics any more.
 
sq225917 said:
It's a chinese issue, let the chinese sort it.
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This is very much the attitude on pfm. People seem more interested in taking the piss out of the situation than considering the HK citizens, who are clearly pissed off and looking for help, reminding UK of its responsibilities post-1997. It's OK saying we no longer have a role, but the paperwork says UK does still have a role.
 
TheDecameron said:
Ha! Someone I was speaking to yesterday made the same suggestion- give all HK residents British passports. Britain can hardly lecture China on democracy since Britain never permitted one person one vote democracy ever in HK but told the Chinese they should when they finally handed it over. Also,sending a frigate to threaten China is an unfortunate echo of gunboat diplomacy obviously lost on the clown stick Gavin Williamson. What next- traffic hundreds of tonnes of heroin into China?
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There is no need for a lecture, violence or trade pressure. They can just reach out to the people, bypassing all the politics.

Note about a quarter of the population was on the streets, that's maybe half the adults? And yet people here seem more exited about 1 million Brexit protestors in London. Small potatoes in comparison.

Although there is a small amount of mileage in the fact they they were not allowed to vote under UK ownership, it is not much mileage when you consider the numbers in protest against China versus protest against UK in my lifetime. I recall none.

Furthermore, considering China's record on many issues, such as human rights, nobody has mentioned it on this thread.
 
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