advertisement


Home remodeling - tips for mains and network

ste71

ste71

pfm Member
My apartment is currently being renovated and remodeled so I have a chance to setup a dedicated mains and network for audio.

In my previous house I had a dedicated mains and it made a difference, so I’m going to have it done here, too. Any special recommendations? I mean, cable sections, connections and so on?

Setting up a network maybe more complicated. I have a modem router 30 m far from the room where I’m going to install the core of my network. I was going to use two different Ethernet cables from the modem/router and use two different switches: one for computer network and another for audio streaming (I have three systems connected to the network).
Some suggest the use of optic fibre at some point in the audio network, so that it can be decoupled from the computer network, and can be kept clean from the “digital noise” that affects the metal network.

My source now is only Roon with Qobuz, Tidal and music files stored on a nas.

Any ideas about doing it right? I think at this point I have a wide choice since everything will be rebuilt from scratch. As long as it is financially reasonable :rolleyes:
Thanks
 
Calculate how many power and network sockets you need...

... then double the number

I had the sitting room redone totally not that long ago and I had more sockets put in than were previously there and still regret not having more installed while I had the electricians in :-(
Not necessarily more in each location but more locations around the room.
 
uncl_nigel said:
Calculate how many power and network sockets you need...

... then double the number

I had the sitting room redone totally not that long ago and I had more sockets put in than were previously there and still regret not having more installed while I had the electricians in :-(
Not necessarily more in each location but more locations around the room.
Click to expand...
Yep, every time I’m asked to look over a wiring spec I recommend doubling the sockets and then add half again.

Some general advice, use Cat6 normal install cable, get it installed by a reputable guy with references, buy 1 good quality switch not 3 average ones. Forget Fibre.

The above is based on your use of the words “financially reasonable”.
 
Agreed on doubling the amount of sockets
6mm twin and and earth dedicated for the mains from it's own CU.
Best unswitched socket is the Coherent one
 
Amber Audio said:
Yep, every time I’m asked to look over a wiring spec I recommend doubling the sockets and then add half again.

Some general advice, use Cat6 normal install cable, get it installed by a reputable guy with references, buy 1 good quality switch not 3 average ones. Forget Fibre.

The above is based on your use of the words “financially reasonable”.
Click to expand...

I can't think anyone would need fibre in a domestic house unless you wanted to get network down to the bottom of a long garden. Cat5e/Cat6 is good for 90-100m IIRC?

Good advice on doubling the sockets, we are in the process of renovating our ground floor, and will be doing a re-wire so that's very useful! I was planning on putting maybe a couple of the USB/13-Amp twin sockets in each room while I'm at it.
 
I would investigate having the ISP move the broadband WAN master socket so that it is next to your network stuff. Thats better than running long LAN cables.

I did this in my house. One master socket on one line down stairs and another in my office on the third floor (about 70' run) for my business line. In my case I had the cable installed before dry lining and got the ISP to connect and install the master socket.

Cheers,

DV
 
Hoopsontoast said:
I can't think anyone would need fibre in a domestic house unless you wanted to get network down to the bottom of a long garden. Cat5e/Cat6 is good for 90-100m IIRC?

Good advice on doubling the sockets, we are in the process of renovating our ground floor, and will be doing a re-wire so that's very useful! I was planning on putting maybe a couple of the USB/13-Amp twin sockets in each room while I'm at it.
Click to expand...
Deploy Fibre networks as part of the job - I run an IT outfit and will be 99% home based now, not bother going to HQ. Like to dog food the kit we sell. Per OP or any domestic install then yeah Fibre for very long runs if Wi Fi not suitable as a solution - hard cabled is always better.
 
ste71 said:
Some suggest the use of optic fibre at some point in the audio network, so that it can be decoupled from the computer network, and can be kept clean from the “digital noise” that affects the metal network.
Click to expand...

I guess it depends on whether or not you take an esoteric audiophile view that posh ethernet cables sound different and specialist audiophile switches sound better.
 
Thank you all for wise advice, the data network will surely be built on cat6.
I will see about the fibre connection. I'm not going to get lost with esoteric cables and I am no network expert but as it shouldn't be too expensive, I may have a 30m run of optic cable installed now (in parallel with the cat6, from modem-router to the switch location) and see if it will come useful in the future.

Other tips are most welcome
 
ste71 said:
Thank you all for wise advice, the data network will surely be built on cat6.
I will see about the fibre connection. I'm not going to get lost with esoteric cables and I am no network expert but as it shouldn't be too expensive, I may have a 30m run of optic cable installed now (in parallel with the cat6, from modem-router to the switch location) and see if it will come useful in the future.

Other tips are most welcome
Click to expand...
You'll need fancy converters and fancy switches to work with Fibre so do your research - SFP modules/transceivers/Multi Mode converters etc - I'd say stick to copper Cat6

Unlike normal network cables - fibre needs extra kit to work on a home network. A few bits of Hi Fi gear have native fibre sockets but they are still at the spendy end of the market - Lumin do a Streamer with one at £12K
 
ste71 said:
Thank you all for wise advice, the data network will surely be built on cat6.
I will see about the fibre connection. I'm not going to get lost with esoteric cables and I am no network expert but as it shouldn't be too expensive, I may have a 30m run of optic cable installed now (in parallel with the cat6, from modem-router to the switch location) and see if it will come useful in the future.

Other tips are most welcome
Click to expand...
Optical networking is very cheap and easy if you use switches with SFP ports. I’ve used it at home for various reasons, not related to the sound quality of my HiFi system, over which I have found it to have little or no effect.
 
mikemusic said:
6mm twin and and earth dedicated for the mains from its own CU.
Click to expand...

Things may have moved on in mains installation during the last dozen or so years, but I can only suggest what I installed for my (then) upper Naim kit. I had a number of dedicated mains installations before, but they were rather crude in comparison. Friends have similar installations with (nearly all) upper Naim.

One cable per piece of kit plus spare(s?) 10mm2 t & e for amplification and 6mm2 for others or a general mix 'n' match of those; nothing smaller. Consumer unit to accommodate plus usual tails and splitter box after the meter. 100amp main fuse. All 32 amp (?not sure; could be lower) RCBOs (combo of RCD and MCB). Double busbar if poss.

We didn't do sockets and plugs as that degraded a major impedance advantage of a proper radial installation. With captive mains leads this can be a headache but most kit has IECs anyway. If sockets, unswitched, obv. Singles would be more in keeping with the dedication concept but depends on the number of radials you want to run.

In my case, all this, even though it doesn't eat anything and can be useful for isolation purposes, is less relevant today as I'm nearly all valved, and I have a strong feeling that the advantages of a dedicated radial system might be, at least in part, lost on the trannies used in valved kit. Toroidals are a different matter.

I don't have a clue about digital stuff as I'm an analogue and CD man, and unlikely to change at my age ! There are many variations upon a theme of dedicated mains (hefty tail to c.u. near kit, e.g.) and even compromises are still better than sharing the consumer ring. i.m.o. My friends and I have an earth spike as well, but in a flat I doubt that is possible, and anyway, can be potentially lethal depending on your incoming bonding situation.

Hope this helps.
 
Mike Reed said:
Things may have moved on in mains installation during the last dozen or so years, but I can only suggest what I installed for my (then) upper Naim kit. I had a number of dedicated mains installations before, but they were rather crude in comparison. Friends have similar installations with (nearly all) upper Naim.

One cable per piece of kit plus spare(s?) 10mm2 t & e for amplification and 6mm2 for others or a general mix 'n' match of those; nothing smaller. Consumer unit to accommodate plus usual tails and splitter box after the meter. 100amp main fuse. All 32 amp (?not sure; could be lower) RCBOs (combo of RCD and MCB). Double busbar if poss.

We didn't do sockets and plugs as that degraded a major impedance advantage of a proper radial installation. With captive mains leads this can be a headache but most kit has IECs anyway. If sockets, unswitched, obv. Singles would be more in keeping with the dedication concept but depends on the number of radials you want to run.

In my case, all this, even though it doesn't eat anything and can be useful for isolation purposes, is less relevant today as I'm nearly all valved, and I have a strong feeling that the advantages of a dedicated radial system might be, at least in part, lost on the trannies used in valved kit. Toroidals are a different matter.

I don't have a clue about digital stuff as I'm an analogue and CD man, and unlikely to change at my age ! There are many variations upon a theme of dedicated mains (hefty tail to c.u. near kit, e.g.) and even compromises are still better than sharing the consumer ring. i.m.o. My friends and I have an earth spike as well, but in a flat I doubt that is possible, and anyway, can be potentially lethal depending on your incoming bonding situation.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...
Mike, I intend to get a Sparky to do all the work and sign off a safety cert. I also have a Solar install and will be getting a battery wall down the line. I want a dedicated mains supply to the 2 Channel kit and am not bothered about the TV gear that is mixed in so reckon half a dozen unswitched wall sockets off a new CU. I like in a detached place with a garden so an Earth rod is easily added to the project.

Is there a resource for the items I'll need or recommended parts, I know forums are wary of specifics for valid safety and CYA reasons. I seem to recall a guy posting moons ago Ross or Roy something, a heap of info but things may need different kit in 2021? Thinking I can give the sparky a BoM or buy the hardware via my company and he just supplies the expertise fitting it all.

ATB

Gus
 
As a former sparky and now a college tutor in electrical installation I'd recommend the following: Hire an NICEIC Approved contractor (not a domestic Installer), get them to install Prysmian Cable - for the circuits, the main earth conductor, the equipotential bonding conductors and the main tails. Use a Hager consumer unit, with each circuit on its own RCBO, including having surge protection. As for the hifi circuit itself - I would wire that in either 6mm2 or 4mm2 radial circuit with high integrity earthing, using either Hagar or MK accessories. As for the data - Cat5e or Cat 6 wired connection to a decent network switch - something like TP Link
 
mikebirtill said:
As a former sparky and now a college tutor in electrical installation I'd recommend the following: Hire an NICEIC Approved contractor (not a domestic Installer), get them to install Prysmian Cable - for the circuits, the main earth conductor, the equipotential bonding conductors and the main tails. Use a Hager consumer unit, with each circuit on its own RCBO, including having surge protection. As for the hifi circuit itself - I would wire that in either 6mm2 or 4mm2 radial circuit with high integrity earthing, using either Hagar or MK accessories. As for the data - Cat5e or Cat 6 wired connection to a decent network switch - something like TP Link
Click to expand...
The Sparky I use for IT/Electrical installs at work will be doing my house, he is NICEIC Registered.

I've already got the house wired and a Comms Cab in the garage - Ubiquiti Gen 2 network gear throughout and a Yealink VOIP system.

That parts list is fantastic, I'll pass it on. Many thanks!
 
Whatsisnaim said:
Optical networking is very cheap and easy if you use switches with SFP ports.
Click to expand...

It's been a long time since I bought any network gear so I was surprised to see you can buy a D-Link switch with SFP ports for £75 and MM SPFs for £20-30 each.

I'm not sure I'd want to use media converters as they're typically unmanaged and if you're going to the trouble of running in cable through the house I'd want to be able to check the interfaces are running clean.

Properly terminating fibre is a bit more involved than for copper but the OP could always just get some pre-terminated 30m cables run in.
 
paulfromcamden said:
It's been a long time since I bought any network gear so I was surprised to see you can buy a D-Link switch with SFP ports for £75 and MM SPFs for £20-30 each.

I'm not sure I'd want to use media converters as they're typically unmanaged and if you're going to the trouble of running in cable through the house I'd want to be able to check the interfaces are running clean.

Properly terminating fibre is a bit more involved than for copper but the OP could always just get some pre-terminated 30m cables run in.
Click to expand...
It's way cheaper these days but not really needed for a normal house.

TP Link have a decent choice at low cost, 8 port from £70, this is decent for £100
http://www.broadbandbuyer.com/products/12708-tp-link-t2500g-10ts/accessories/
 
You must log in or register to reply here.


advertisement


Back
Top