Hive Heating Controller Problem

[twotone]

There are some brands like Honeywell that have overcome that problem.

Honeywell are shite these days, the best wireless programmable thermostats are the cheap ones, I install EPH Combi 4 stats, no internet just wireless plus they’re Open Therm if you want to go down that road, they’re about £70 their App/internet version is about £130.

CP4 (COMBIPACK4) - OpenTherm® Programmable RF Thermostat - EPH Controls

Digital RF programmable room thermostat and receiver suitable for controlling 1 heating zone. It features OpenTherm®, Optimum Start, TPI and On/Off control modes.Boiler Plus Compliant.

www.ephcontrols.co.uk

 

[Darth Vader]

I have the Vaillant gear and have no exposure to Hive but I guess it uses the same principle. I'd just like to clear up some confusion. The controller, boiler and wireless TRV radiator valves all communicate on the SRD (Short Range Devices) radio band 863-870MHz and work together without any need for WiFi nor Internet connectivity.

However to make the system user-friendly such as access via a smart phone or tablet an Internet gateway is an optional add on. Its this gateway that allows your hand held devices to control the heating system in a simple way. Its been designed as a client-server model and of course the server is at a manufactures site which is accessed over the Internet. So if either the server goes down e.g. for maintenance or update or your broadband then you lose access via your apps but the system is still running as programmed and can be manually changed. Its just a bit of pain compared to the ease of an app and you need to read the documentation which as we know is often as clear as mud.

By a dint of luck as I had the 18 wireless TRVs, controller and gateway installed with the weather compensated boiler they are all covered under the same 10 year (parts and labour) guarantee.

Overall the system works well and we use less gas. We no longer freeze and boil just a nice background warmth radiated by the house fabric. One of the first comments from my wife during a cold spell was "I am warm in this room but the radiator is cold".

DV

 

[Kirk]

Honeywell are shite these days, the best wireless programmable thermostats are the cheap ones, I install EPH Combi 4 stats, no internet just wireless plus they’re Open Therm if you want to go down that road, they’re about £70 their App/internet version is about £130.

CP4 (COMBIPACK4) - OpenTherm® Programmable RF Thermostat - EPH Controls

Digital RF programmable room thermostat and receiver suitable for controlling 1 heating zone. It features OpenTherm®, Optimum Start, TPI and On/Off control modes.Boiler Plus Compliant.

www.ephcontrols.co.uk

Use their EvoHome stuff. Haven't had any problems over a two year period.

 

[twotone]

Use their EvoHome stuff. Haven't had any problems over a two year period.

Aye I know their evo home stuff it’s old tech and extortionate.

Honeywell used to be the gold standard for motorised valves and thermostats and gas valves no longer sadly.

 

[Pravda]

I'm happy with my Horstman digital programmer, and Honeywell TVRs, and wireless room stat. I can't drive anything more complicated, and like I've said before, coming home to a cold house doesn't bother me. The rush for these companies to sell these "energy saving devices" clouds the extra cost when they go tits up.imo.

 

[Copperjacket]

Thank you All for the advice so far.

This is substantially driven by 2 people working from home and as a result there are rooms that are unused at different times of the day / week:
When we were all working from offices or in school etc the heating was much simpler but now we want options to heat the home offices, kitchen etc during the day without necessarily heating all the bedrooms sitting room etc.

I had thought of using zone valves but that didn’t seem to work without major modifications to heating circuits which is why I am considering smart TRV options .

 

[Jubal]

Thank you All for the advice so far.

This is substantially driven by 2 people working from home and as a result there are rooms that are unused at different times of the day / week:
When we were all working from offices or in school etc the heating was much simpler but now we want options to heat the home offices, kitchen etc during the day without necessarily heating all the bedrooms sitting room etc.

I had thought of using zone valves but that didn’t seem to work without major modifications to heating circuits which is why I am considering smart TRV options .

That is exactly our use case. TRVs on every rad. Bar a couple obviously. Works a treat.

 

[Copperjacket]

So if either the server goes down e.g. for maintenance or update or your broadband then you lose access via your apps but the system is still running as programmed and can be manually changed.

DV

Thank You for your comment.
Unfortunately in my case, when the broadband went down, access to the app obviously disappeared - but that was never used - but more importantly, all the programs disappeared as did the time and date settings.
I will speak to Hive tomorrow and see what they say.

 

[Avinunca]

My setup

Last time I looked these were about 24 pounds. I ordered mine from this company.
https://itead.cc/product/sonoff-zigbee-thermostatic-radiator-valve/ Sonoff make a lot of very good well made devices to use in home automation. Good value too.
Controlled by this

Home Assistant Green

The easy-to-use, versatile, and trustworthy smart home hub for everyone.

www.home-assistant.io

Heating controller is -

Drayton Wiser Wireless Heating & Hot Water 2-Channel Thermostat Control Kit White - Screwfix

Order online at Screwfix.com. Easy to install 2-channel smart thermostat kit features OpenTherm technology and manual override. Add Wiser radiator thermostats to create up to 16 heating zones. Control on the move via a simple app. Works with IFTTT. Supplied with standard backplate for easy...

www.screwfix.com

Integrates with my Home Assistant computer.
Lots of excellent YT videos on Home Assistant. The free software can also be run on a Raspberry Pi or most personal computers.

If you want voice control you can keep your conversations contained in your home unlike Alexa and similar.
I use a couple of Sonoff wireless push button switches for my table lamps in the living room and the dining room. One press and one lamp turns on. Double press and the other turns on. A long press turns both on or toggles. Programme them as you wish. I have Sonoff temperature/Humidity sensors in each room giving a true reading to feed back to the TRVs. I can access everything remotely. You can use devices to open and close blinds, set mood lighting etc etc Warning - this stuff is addictive.

 

[Copperjacket]

I have now spoken to Hive Customer Services and for those thinking about a Hive System I would comment as follows:

If you have a stand alone Hive Thermostat, it doesn't use Broadband and therefore retains full control of your boiler. TRV's are not controlled.

If you have the additional Hive Hub, the link between the Thermostat and the Boiler Controls uses Broadband via your Wifi so when your Broadband goes down so does your programming. You will also loose control of your TRV Valves which default to closed!

You can manually re-pair your Thermostat to the Boiler Controls if needed and regain full control but that is a bit of a faff and will need to be reversed when your Broadband is restored.

The TRV valves can be manually over-ridden.

So if you are on holiday over winter and your broadband is down...

 

[twotone]

I have now spoken to Hive Customer Services and for those thinking about a Hive System I would comment as follows:

If you have a stand alone Hive Thermostat, it doesn't use Broadband and therefore retains full control of your boiler. TRV's are not controlled.

If you have the additional Hive Hub, the link between the Thermostat and the Boiler Controls uses Broadband via your Wifi so when your Broadband goes down so does your programming. You will also loose control of your TRV Valves which default to closed!

You can manually re-pair your Thermostat to the Boiler Controls if needed and regain full control but that is a bit of a faff and will need to be reversed when your Broadband is restored.

The TRV valves can be manually over-ridden.

So if you are on holiday over winter and your broadband is down...

Not just broadband I’ve seen a couple of houses ruined because people relied on the heating system during the winter and the batteries failed in the wireless stats, both Hive btw.

i had an old lady customer a few weeks ago who’s Hive thermostat lost communication with the receiver, yes she could have brought the heating on by using the manual button on the receiver but she had no idea you could do that I ended up on the phone to Hive CS for about fifteen minutes talked through the rebinding process, there’s no way the customer could have followed the instructions though.

No one should rely on the heating protecting an empty/unoccupied house in winter.

 

[Copperjacket]

i had an old lady customer a few weeks ago who’s Hive thermostat lost communication with the receiver, yes she could have brought the heating on by using the manual button on the receiver but she had no idea you could do that I ended up on the phone to Hive CS for about fifteen minutes talked through the rebinding process, there’s no way the customer could have followed the instructions though.

I was talked through the rebinding process by Hive and I agree doesn't sound simple at all!

 

[Darth Vader]

In case it helps here is a link to the Hive guides.

Hive Manuals - thermostat.guide

I wanted to see how this stuff works but a pigs breakfast. The Vaillant stuff that I have is significantly a better product.

DV

 

[Kirk]

Aye I know their evo home stuff it’s old tech and extortionate.

Honeywell used to be the gold standard for motorised valves and thermostats and gas valves no longer sadly.

Yeah, it's a bit clunky but so far, so good. Who's in the lead these days?

 

[Copperjacket]

I have the Vaillant gear and have no exposure to Hive but I guess it uses the same principle. I'd just like to clear up some confusion. The controller, boiler and wireless TRV radiator valves all communicate on the SRD (Short Range Devices) radio band 863-870MHz and work together without any need for WiFi nor Internet connectivity.

I have now spoken to Vaillant on the back of your useful advice.

They have now discontinued their Ambi TRVs and furthermore are adamant that you can't use their boiler controls, thermostats,TRVs etc with non-Vaillant ie 3rd party boilers! This information came from their Systems Design and Technical Team.

 

[Darth Vader]

I have now spoken to Vaillant on the back of your useful advice.

They have now discontinued their Ambi TRVs and furthermore are adamant that you can't use their boiler controls, thermostats,TRVs etc with non-Vaillant ie 3rd party boilers! This information came from their Systems Design and Technical Team.

Apologies I should have pointed out that Vaillant have developed their own extensions to the OSI layer 7 (application layer) that is designed for their own proprietary eBUS used by their boilers

In the diagram the eBUS is shown as wired but it also uses the SRD wireless band
(see above) and thats how mine is configured. The ambiSense TRV controllers also use the SRD wireless band.

DV

 

[twotone]

Yeah, it's a bit clunky but so far, so good. Who's in the lead these days?

Drayton wiser seems to be good or as @Darth Vader says go with the boiler manufacturer's stuff although having said that Worcester Bosch's stuff is meant to be poor although I like their App and Easycontroller.

I worked for a guy who worked in Honeywell's RD dept at Uddingston and he was given a boiler and an EVO home set up as a retirement present so he set it all up and it worked well but just looked way too complicated for me especially for 'normal punters' but all of those systems are really only for comfort they're not for saving fuel per se although they do save some money on fuel the most important thing is the turn down ratio of the boiler most are 1:8 some are 1:10 and I think there's one at 1:12 but pretty expensive basically that means if you have 40 kW output boiler then the boiler will run at a minimum of 4 kW in the case of the 10-1 modulation boiler so you have a rad or a couple of rads amounting to 4 kW output then the boiler will run at that output.

Bottom line is that those system are really expensive relative to fuel savings personally I wouldn't bother, I have weather comp an outdoor sensor and open therm controller and frankly I'm not impressed with any of it.

Unica MAX C|Vokera

www.vokera.co.uk