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High end streamers, waste of money or not, please?

StackAudio said:
The idea of circulating a demo unit to the users of PFM is something we would certainly be open to. This is something new to us and would be really grateful if the wonderful users here could shed some further light on how it usually works (we just need a way of tracking the unit's movements)?
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I've done this a fair bit with luthier made guitars over the years - termed a "Road Trip".

As noted above, you start a forum thread asking who'd be interested in participating and those who are then post their intent and where they reside.
You then workout the most efficient route for the unit to get from you, around the group, and ultimately back to you.
Each recipient keeps the unit for a week or two, and is then responsible for getting it to the next on the list (including the cost of that, be it postage or face-to-face handover) etc.
Insurance for the unit itself has been a sticking point in previous roadtrips I've partcipated in, almost always resolved by the manufacturer accepting responsibility for that. That usually means they take-it-on-the-chin if the unit gets lost or broken - I've never participated in a trip (or indeed heard of one) where that has happened in reality.

After having had the unit, the recipients then usually post their "review" in the respective thread.
Don't worry - they're almost always glowing...
 
beammeup said:
Isn't your Stack Audio Link based on the Pro-Ject Streambox S2 Ultra?

I own this model and it would be good to put the Streambox up against your Link if you are thinking about allowing peeps to audition your box. I also have the sMS-200 Ultra for comparison.
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Correct. The differences are in the clock, power filter circuit and USB detox input.

Once we have our demo units back, I plan on making some available.
 
AndyU said:
Hi Stack Audio. You say you believe “that a digital streamer set up does make a strong difference”. Since you actually make and sell a digital streamer, the Link II, can you actually back up this claim with any measurement at the output of any DAC that shows your streamer makes a measurable difference?
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Not exactly what you asked for, but Hifi News did measure the "USB detox" function of the Stream Box S2 Ultra (same designer, very similar internals) and found it DID reduce jitter and S/N ration compared to going direct to DAC. https://www.hifinews.com/content/pro-ject-stream-box-s2-ultra-network-bridge-lab-report.
Only time I've seen measurements like that of a USB detox device that show it actually affects the DAC output.
 
sq225917 said:
Seems to work as well as an expensive solution.
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More expensive solutions are usually full of disc drives, and have fancy processors running Roon Core and the like. They then spend a fortune trying to make the disc drives quieter and the processor quieter. The Stack Audio approach (shared with the Squeezebox Touch and Linn Streamers) is to fix any issues with noisy disc drives by not having one, and to fix any issues with resource heavy server software by not running it. Just be a dumb, inherently quiet endpoint and let something else on your network do the heavy lifting. Seems smarter to me. Haven't tried the Link II, but I might be interested in giving it a punt.
 
firedog said:
Not exactly what you asked for, but Hifi News did measure the "USB detox" function of the Stream Box S2 Ultra (same designer, very similar internals) and found it DID reduce jitter and S/N ration compared to going direct to DAC. https://www.hifinews.com/content/pro-ject-stream-box-s2-ultra-network-bridge-lab-report.
Only time I've seen measurements like that of a USB detox device that show it actually affects the DAC output.
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Thanks, I had seen that awhile ago. I think to not overstate the potential benefits, the HFN review of the Stream Box found it more beneficial with some DACS than others. Big measurable improvement with the Chord Mojo, even more with an IfiAudio DAC, a less obvious improvement if any with an Oppo. But when it did improve things, as with the Mojo, it did so at least as much as a very expensive Melco server.
 
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AndyU said:
But when it did improve things, as with the Mojo, it did so at least as much as a very expensive Innuos server.
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Hardly a fair comparison as a Innuos server does so much more and provides a one box solution for those who want that.
Also ( if I understand correctly) the detox function is to 'clean up' the signal from a noisy laptop - a lot of people (me included) don't want a laptop in close proximity to their Hifi.
 
I have a Linn Klimax Renew DS, which I'm very happy with. Would I upgrade to a more modern unit? No, not at the prices that Linn or Naim charge for their streaming solutions. Law of diminishing returns plays a big part in this.
Having heard the Bluesound Node 2i and used the excellent Blu OS app, I think it's a great sounding solution for the money. Whether playing files from my NAS or streaming from Tidal, it sounds great.
Sure, a DAC can change / enhance things, but it depends upon your budget and how far you want to go.
I guess what I'm saying is that the Node 2i is great value for money. I doubt you'll find anything else under £500 that delivers this level or performance with such a user friendly app. If you've got a grand to spend then I'd probably still recommend the Node 2i and maybe try a DAC with the remaining budget to see if it makes a justifiable difference. I found the DAC changed things but didn't necessarily make it better.
 
AndyU said:
Thanks, I had seen that awhile ago. I think to not overstate the potential benefits, the HFN review of the Stream Box found it more beneficial with some DACS than others. Big measurable improvement with the Chord Mojo, even more with an IfiAudio DAC, a less obvious improvement if any with an Oppo. But when it did improve things, as with the Mojo, it did so at least as much as a very expensive Innuos server.
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Yeah sure, it makes sense that it would more benefit with some DACs vs. others. I'd assume it's dependant on the USB input implementation of each DAC.
But I'd still say it means it's a useful feature. Unfortunately, don't know if your DAC is one of the ones for which it makes a difference before you buy it. They do allow returns in the first 30 days if you aren't satisfied.
 
webster said:
Also ( if I understand correctly) the detox function is to 'clean up' the signal from a noisy laptop - a lot of people (me included) don't want a laptop in close proximity to their Hifi.
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But lots of people do have their NAS/server PC/external USB drive within a few meters of their system and play directly from it.
 
Scoobydoo said:
I have a Linn Klimax Renew DS, which I'm very happy with. Would I upgrade to a more modern unit? No, not at the prices that Linn or Naim charge for their streaming solutions. Law of diminishing returns plays a big part in this.
Having heard the Bluesound Node 2i and used the excellent Blu OS app, I think it's a great sounding solution for the money. Whether playing files from my NAS or streaming from Tidal, it sounds great.
Sure, a DAC can change / enhance things, but it depends upon your budget and how far you want to go.
I guess what I'm saying is that the Node 2i is great value for money. I doubt you'll find anything else under £500 that delivers this level or performance with such a user friendly app. If you've got a grand to spend then I'd probably still recommend the Node 2i and maybe try a DAC with the remaining budget to see if it makes a justifiable difference. I found the DAC changed things but didn't necessarily make it better.
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How good is the app, is it as good as the sonos app.
 
webster said:
Hardly a fair comparison as a Innuos server does so much more and provides a one box solution for those who want that.
Also ( if I understand correctly) the detox function is to 'clean up' the signal from a noisy laptop - a lot of people (me included) don't want a laptop in close proximity to their Hifi.
Click to expand...
Actually it was a very expensive Melco server that compared unfavourably with the Project Stream Box in the review, I misremembered the make, but my point stands. It is an absolutely fair comparison. The £600 Project Box delivered measurably lower jitter at the output of the DAC than the £5000 Melco. The Project box is not simply a USB cleaner, though it can be used as such, it is a network bridge, or Roon endpoint. It connects to whatever server you want to use over your network. There’s no need to have a laptop anywhere near your hifi with it, any old cheap pc or laptop would do, stuck under the stairs. No need for “audio grade SSDs” whatever they are. So say £400 for that, (or nothing if you already have one), £1k altogether, £4k saved over the Melco and better performance to boot. What’s not to like?
 
Amber Audio said:
The reason the old Naim streamers like the NDX are cheap these days is because they can’t support stuff like Qobuz and never will. I would not advise someone buys an NDX unless they are fully aware of its limits and that it is effectively a dead platform. If purely for FLACs from NAS it will do a fine enough job.
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You could use a cost effective Pi and LMS with it to bring it up to speed,
 
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