HiFi tuning Foo-uses

[Arkless Electronics]

Why you're sorry to report this, AND be in a quandAry, is beyond me, Dan. You've just discovered what I. and a few others, have known about for yonks. Bless his engineering heart, but young Arkless is wrong when he says that chassis fuses do not affect s.q. He's right on the safety risk, though (otherwise why have fuses in the first place?).

I've not had ARC stuff, so it's interesting to see that this is yet another make susceptible to this, as is my Meridian CDP, my E.A.R. valved monoblocs and all the Naim kit I've had. The jury's still out on my Lector CDP, though, so it's not a blanket endorsement. RCBOs (or possibly separate MCBs and RCDs) are very effective safety devices, especially when each is dedicated to just one piece of kit, but the chassis fuse is there for a very good reason (unfortunately).

Oh yeh..... and you would know all about LT, HT fusing, differences between fusing in the primary and secondary of a transformer, before or after bridge rectifier or even after complete PSU in split rail supplies in solid state amps then? and what the likely effect of any resistance (linear or non linear) would be in all those different areas?

It can have some effect in certain areas of certain types of amp but much smaller than that in a speaker. In most places it would have no effect.... and certainly not in a pre amp!

Go ahead and blow your amp up though.... it keeps the likes of me in beer money (try not to do a "Philpot" though )

 

[paul auster]

Oh yeh..... and you would know all about LT, HT fusing, differences between fusing in the primary and secondary of a transformer, before or after bridge rectifier or even after complete PSU in split rail supplies in solid state amps then? and what the likely effect of any resistance (linear or non linear) would be in all those different areas?

It can have some effect in certain areas of certain types of amp but much smaller than that in a speaker. In most places it would have no effect.... and certainly not in a pre amp!

Go ahead and blow your amp up though.... it keeps the likes of me in beer money (try not to do a "Philpot" though )

Obfuscation - it is not neccessary to understand a phenomena to know it exists , so proving your electronically savvy deoes not prove your point.

As it happens some experts will say internal amplifier fuses muck up the sound significantly .

And correct me if i'm wrong but is repairing not akin to teaching

 

[Arkless Electronics]

The fact that this thread has now grown to eleven pages and counting suggests that the benefits of fuse uprating/replacing are at least contentious and should not be readily dismissed on purely technical grounds. Any more than suggesting that the voltage inputs of naim preamps are so cobbled that there will be no appreciable benefits moving from a Hi to a Supercap. I do admit that in the latter case the design of the preamps may somewhat lessen the differences between power supplies, which in my experience still can be *huge' and not marginal.

I think that chassis fuses do protect more than just the mains. They can also protect transformers, circuit boards etc from melting down if there is internal shorting. Of course in the thirty something years I have had legions of hifi, I have never had a single component go bad to a point where it was blowing fuses. Which is not to say that never happens.

Not contentious so much as totally misunderstood by non engineers... like so many aspects of hifi!! Hence all the foo.... It's even encouraged by many who make a living out of the gullible!

 

[Arkless Electronics]

Obfuscation - it is not neccessary to understand a phenomena to know it exists , so proving your electronically savvy deoes not prove your point.

As it happens some experts will say internal amplifier fuses muck up the sound significantly .

I have better things to do than discuss engineering with those that neither know anything about the subject nor believe what they are told by professionals in the field. Neophytes seem to have greater faith in alchemy than engineering.

Outa here....

 

[Arkless Electronics]

Obfuscation - it is not neccessary to understand a phenomena to know it exists , so proving your electronically savvy deoes not prove your point.

As it happens some experts will say internal amplifier fuses muck up the sound significantly .

And correct me if i'm wrong but is repairing not akin to teaching

I see you added to your last post.... obviously you know little about me

Now outa here...

 

[paul auster]

My little Joke , Jez , but come on , I'm absolutley sure people appreciate your technical know-how , but lets drop the trust me Im a professional dont believe your own ears dogma .

Doctors ,lawyers and indeed teachers have had to move away from the dogma that just because they are professionals they are omnipotent and always know best , time for hifi engineers me thinks.

 

[Mescalito]

Obfuscation - it is not neccessary to understand a phenomena to know it exists , so proving your electronically savvy deoes not prove your point.

As it happens some experts will say internal amplifier fuses muck up the sound significantly .

And correct me if i'm wrong but is repairing not akin to teaching

Like, say, alien abduction, crystal healing, homeopathy, dowsing......

Chris

 

[paul auster]

Nope - like say

getting on Aeroplane , using a computer , motor vehilce or going home tonight to watch television .All based on theories and phonomena i dont understand but i know exist .

 

[Mescalito]

Nope - like say

getting on Aeroplane , using a computer , motor vehilce or going home tonight to watch television .All based on theories and phonomena i dont understand but i know exist .

Not at all. All the activities you mention are easily verified by an independant observer. The effect of foo fuses most certainly is not. The effect exists in your imagination only.

Chris

 

[adamdea]

Not at all. All the activities you mention are easily verified by an independant observer. The effect of foo fuses most certainly is not. The effect exists in your imagination only.

Chris

Not to mention the fact that all of those activities were also made possible by engineers, not people who (eg) "discovered" that they could fly while dreaming.

 

[paul auster]

You are bastardising the point i made for the sake of an -illegitimate -argument .

I said it is not neccessary to understand a phemonena - audiophile concluding a fuse made his system to sound better - for it to exist . This was an argumentative juxtapostion to Jez's response, which can be accurately paraphrased as "Im an engineer i know it cant exist you are a fool" .

Nothing you said dilutes the force of this argument .

Also -i made no stance on the subject and accoridngly that is one illegitimate use of my imagination .

Additionally - There are a signigficant group of people who report change for the better .

Alas , you dont have an argument .

 

[paul auster]

Not to mention the fact that all of those activities were also made possible by engineers, not people who (eg) "discovered" that they could fly while dreaming.

The wright brothers had no formal education and made bicycles . What they did may fall under the rubric engineering ,they were not engineers but inventors .

Alan Turing was a mathamatician

Alan Farnworth was also not an engineer .

A little trite , but i trust you take my point .

 

[adamdea]

Additionally - There are a signigficant group of people who report change for the better .

Oh well in that case it had better be added to the burgeoning list of Things We
Know to be True, like freezing cds to make them sound better.

 

[adamdea]

The wright brothers had no formal education and made bicycles . What they did may fall under the rubric engineering ,they were not engineers but inventors .

Alan Turing was a mathamatician

Alan Farnworth was also not an engineer .

A little trite , but i trust you take my point .

If, by "taking [your] point", you mean "recognise that you are determined to plough on with further non sequiturs rather than reverse back past your spectacularly ill-judged analogy", then yes.

 

[davidsrsb]

Internal fuses in valve amplifiers are there to prevent valve flash-over destroying the expensive output transformers. I strongly advise not to touch

 

[paul auster]

If, by "taking [your] point", you mean "recognise that you are determined to plough on with further non sequiturs rather than reverse back past your spectacularly ill-judged analogy", then yes.

Dont understand this sentance ,it is meaningless rehtoric .

My point was and still is , no amount of professional knowledge can prove that those who claim to hear improvement with fuses did not hear them and so what is the point of starting from the premise that they are idiots .

I repeat something I said earlier which Jez ignored .

If a person comes on here and says the Arkless modified 640p is a bloody brilliant phono stage and 2 days later comes on this thread and says an audiophile fuse improved his system further , will Jez suddenly say his opinion on his phono stage is idiotic and should be ignored .

 

[Mike Reed]

Oh yeh..... and you would know all about LT, HT fusing, differences between fusing in the primary and secondary of a transformer, before or after bridge rectifier or even after complete PSU in split rail supplies in solid state amps then? and what the likely effect of any resistance (linear or non linear) would be in all those different areas?

It can have some effect in certain areas of certain types of amp but much smaller than that in a speaker. In most places it would have no effect.... and certainly not in a pre amp!

Go ahead and blow your amp up though.... it keeps the likes of me in beer money (try not to do a "Philpot" though )

Jez, you miss my point. I don't hold a candle to your expertise and relevant knowledge, and, furthermore, my lug-holes are old and decrepit, but I can tell the difference between 'fuse out' and fuse in' in quite a bit of (admittedly not cheap) kit.

I really don't give a toss about the technical explanations or denials, and after ten years of being interested in mains supply effects on sound quality, I'm in no doubt whatsoever about the effects of fuses; nor am I alone. As my previous post said, however, I cannot gainsay the safety aspect you mentioned. Buggering about with fuses etc. is tantamount to being foolhardy, but that doesn't detract from the point (which you dismissed) that, like others have found, chassis fuses tend to be an evil necessity as far as s.q. is concerned.

 

[Dan K]

Jez, you miss my point. I don't hold a candle to your expertise and relevant knowledge, and, furthermore, my lug-holes are old and decrepit, but I can tell the difference between 'fuse out' and fuse in' in quite a bit of (admittedly not cheap) kit.

I really don't give a toss about the technical explanations or denials, and after ten years of being interested in mains supply effects on sound quality, I'm in no doubt whatsoever about the effects of fuses; nor am I alone. As my previous post said, however, I cannot gainsay the safety aspect you mentioned. Buggering about with fuses etc. is tantamount to being foolhardy, but that doesn't detract from the point (which you dismissed) that, like others have found, chassis fuses tend to be an evil necessity as far as s.q. is concerned.

+1 Mike

It annoys me that there is no explanation for it, but I can clearly tell the difference with my Pre. I'm not prepared to accept that I imagined it either.

 

[Mike Reed]

Internal fuses in valve amplifiers are there to prevent valve flash-over destroying the expensive output transformers. I strongly advise not to touch

I rather thought it was the IEC mains fuses under discussion but your point cannot be in doubt. Presumably internal fuses (if any) would protect output transisters or whatever in solid state amplification, but this is supposition on my part.

 

[Mescalito]

You are bastardising the point i made for the sake of an -illegitimate -argument .

I said it is not neccessary to understand a phemonena - audiophile concluding a fuse made his system to sound better - for it to exist . This was an argumentative juxtapostion to Jez's response, which can be accurately paraphrased as "Im an engineer i know it cant exist you are a fool" .

Nothing you said dilutes the force of this argument .

Also -i made no stance on the subject and accoridngly that is one illegitimate use of my imagination .

Additionally - There are a signigficant group of people who report change for the better .

Alas , you dont have an argument .

Your argument, however, rests upon totally unverifiable assertions. Theat makes it an act of faith and as such as valid as a absolute belief in creationism.

Chris