Hi -FI Riff - The Quad ESL 63 - A Legend in it's own lifetime and beyond

[Miss Ariel]

Another great chat about the Quad ESL 63 by Mike Evans and Dave Price.
Mike Evans has just got a pair and they discuss whats great about them and whats not.

 

[worz]

Really enjoy these videos ,both proper hifi giks lol

 

[Tony L]

I’ll watch this later. Will be interesting to compare notes. FWIW my “review” is as follows:

Negative: dynamics, punch, scale.

Positive: absolutely everything else a loudspeaker can do.

I love Quads, but I just don’t think I could live without that Tannoy slam and scale even if it comes at a price of a little tonal accuracy and imaging.

 

[worz]

Thats there take as I understood after watching it ,hes running briks so I suppose totally opposite to them

 

[robbyd]

I’ll watch this later. Will be interesting to compare notes. FWIW my “review” is as follows:

Negative: dynamics, punch, scale.

I love Quads, but I just don’t think I could live without that Tannoy slam and scale

Even 57s with dipole subs bellow 110 hz have massive scale and slam

 

[Tony L]

Thats there take as I understood after watching it ,hes running briks so I suppose totally opposite to them

It wasn’t really, they focused on lack of extreme bass & treble, neither of which have bothered me with 63s at all, though 57s can sound a little bass light. I’ve certainly noticed no lack of treble, but I feel the majority of moving coil speakers are tipped-up in the top, or just plain wrong, so it might just be a taste thing there. I seem very sensitive to phase error so it may well be crossover artefacts in many multi-driver conventional speakers that often annoys me.

I’m sure it is dynamic headroom I miss. They just don’t have that life, scale and ease of an efficient speaker of their physical size (Tannoy, JBL, Klipsch etc). I’m pretty certain it is an efficiency thing as they do have the surface area, and what I’m trying to describe I hear in other very inefficient but otherwise good speakers (LS3/5As etc).

FWIW I’ve always really liked the bass on the 63. They go deep enough to get the fundamental of a low E in most rooms and for me adding a sub only slows them down. They are very good on electronica etc as they have no overhang. They can just stop dead. A whole different thing to the usual modern small driver moving a very long way driving a port and energising a load of MDF whilst it is at it.

 

[herb]

An interesting video thanks

I don't know if 63s sit on the floor without a stand but my 57s certainly improved with 12 inch spiked stands which tipped them nearly vertical.

The Quad version of the use of the volume control was different to most, the idea was to move your position in the audience of a classical concert. There was certainly a volume sweet spot depending on how the recording was made.

The ESL designs were made for classical music, purely acoustic. I must admit that in the '70s I was a pipe smoking lover of classical music, some very weird, so I must have been a snob. These days my Harbeth C7s are just as enjoyable with jazz and classical music, same tone but a bit less insight/detail.

 

[Tony L]

I don't know if 63s sit on the floor without a stand but my 57s certainly improved with 12 inch spiked stands which tipped them nearly vertical.

63s certainly like a six to eight inch or so stand, there were several third-party options available the names of which I’ve forgotten. It opens them up further and helps both frequency extremes. Thinking about it I suspect the treble loss mentioned in the video was likely caused due to their being too low. The plastic ‘louvers’ in the ‘63 are decidedly odd and if anything deflect treble downwards.

PS One caveat I need to add to my above post is nearly every time I’ve heard ‘63s or related they have been either on the end of a Quad 405 (not my favourite Quad amp), or a valve amp. I have never heard them on the end of anything really powerful and I’d not be entirely surprised if a hefty Krell, Conrad Johnson, Pass or whatever woke them up a bit. The easier to drive 57 has always sounded a bit more open and alive to me if more obviously compromised in the bass (the 63 has *way* better bass). If I were buying a pair myself I’d actually buy 57s as they just fit better with the sort of kit I like and can sound stunning on Leak valves etc, even if it is in a ‘slightly larger LS3/5A’ context.

 

[Robn]

Just reinstated my 63s now there's a bit more light in the room. Always a pleasant surprise to hear them back after the warmth of the 104/2s. On 10" or so stands they are incredibly transparent and detailed, portraying rhythm and sounstaging well. The bass is extremely agile thought not deeply extended. I have them about a metre out from the back walls and about half a metre from the side walls. I think they would sound better still if my old wooden floor wasn't a bit saggy in places and have started thinking about making wooden platforms to mount the stands on, it would also make them easire to move out of the way when more light is needed! I'm using an Exposure 21/18s to drive them.

 

[Tony L]

One thing to bare in mind with open dipoles such as Quads is the distance from the wall and the damping/diffusion behind them is absolutely critical. Get some distances wrong and the bass actually cancels itself due to front-wall bounce etc. It is so much more than a conventional speaker as the reflection hits the back of the driver. I suspect some of the bass-lightness some report may be down to this or similar effect. They’ll never have the real slam or thwack of big Tannoys etc, but they shouldn’t sound bass-light in a typical UK room.

 

[eisenach]

63s certainly like a six to eight inch or so stand, there were several third-party options available the names of which I’ve forgotten. It opens them up further and helps both frequency extremes. Thinking about it I suspect the treble loss mentioned in the video was likely caused due to their being too low. The plastic ‘louvers’ in the ‘63 are decidedly odd and if anything deflect treble downwards.

PS One caveat I need to add to my above post is nearly every time I’ve heard ‘63s or related they have been either on the end of a Quad 405 (not my favourite Quad amp), or a valve amp. I have never heard them on the end of anything really powerful and I’d not be entirely surprised if a hefty Krell, Conrad Johnson, Pass or whatever woke them up a bit. The easier to drive 57 has always sounded a bit more open and alive to me if more obviously compromised in the bass (the 63 has *way* better bass). If I were buying a pair myself I’d actually buy 57s as they just fit better with the sort of kit I like and can sound stunning on Leak valves etc, even if it is in a ‘slightly larger LS3/5A’ context.

I've got my 63s on Stand and Deliver open metal stands, which lift them about 8 inches. As for amps, I started out with a 606II, which gave a big, warm sound, then a Primare 30.2, which was much more focussed and detailed, but not as warm. I'm now using a Primare A60, which has plenty of power, sounds clean but warm enough, too. The clarity with the right recording can be startling.

 

[Miss Ariel]

Really enjoy these videos ,both proper hifi giks lol

There great the Hi Fi Riff chats.
Have huge respect for David Price one of my favorite journalists
This one the banter is superb couldn't stop smiling and Dave Prices impersonation of Peter Walker is hilarious at 3.25 in to the video.
I really liked the pics of SME's late Alastair Robertson - Aikman's legendary music room with the Krell mono blocks and stacked ESL 57's.Hidden behind the acoustically transparent curtains.

 

[Dowser]

63s certainly like a six to eight inch or so...

Ummm

Metal grilles, gone. Dust covers, gone. Been my main speakers for 11 years now, no interest in changing.

Edit: OK, fixed

 

[Tony L]

Interesting! I’ve never heard them up that high. The ones I’ve liked the most have been on one of those stands (with casters I think, so just a little higher than one). I felt that got the point source pretty much where I’d want it.

 

[Dowser]

I can only say you need to try, I wasn’t unhappy with only the one set of stands, doubling them was a revelation (as was doing same with 57s when I ran them years ago, which was my motivation for trying).

edit to add: my ears are now level with top 2 panels join point

 

[mandryka]

The Gradient subs take them 19" from the ground. There's been a lot of discussion about their efficiency here, which I don't understand. People have urged me to use them with my 25W valve amp, I'm using a 50W solid state amp at the moment.

I don't have the space for two very large sets of speakers, and I do wonder whether large Tannoys or something would be a better choice than ESL 63s and subwoofers. There's no easy way to find out. I can say this: I wouldn't want them as my only set of speakers because they're too revealing -- it's good to have a more forgiving system for some recordings.

The general feel of the discussion on this thread reminds me of the sorts of things Jez Arkless and I would talk about -- how some speakers and amps can do timbre and others can do power and slam and it's very very hard to find one which can do both.

 

[chartz]

I have to have two pairs of speakers, the Quads for sheer sound quality and imaging, fantastic speakers for classical – even organ music, and high efficiency traditional speakers for the rest of my music and lifelike levels of solo instruments. Neither can do both.

 

[Dowser]

My amps have a synergy with the 63s, designer built 10 or so sets back in the late 90s as an all purpose design and as many again in the last 10 years for 57 and 63 owners only. They’re only around 21W but that’s more than enough.

Anyone who hasn’t lifted 57s or 63s seemingly stupidly levels off the ground needs to do so IMVHO Easy to try, put a chair under whatever you have now.

 

[Jim Audiomisc]

FWIW I’ve always really liked the bass on the 63. They go deep enough to get the fundamental of a low E in most rooms and for me adding a sub only slows them down. They are very good on electronica etc as they have no overhang. They can just stop dead. A whole different thing to the usual modern small driver moving a very long way driving a port and energising a load of MDF whilst it is at it.

The low bass of the 63 and its 'children' can be excellent but very dependent on room, positioning, etc. Also, you can mod the bass lift of the Quad34 preamp to get the flatness extending further down. Provided you don't want high overall sound levels. Hence it is a matter of tweaking and care - and luck with your room acoustic. That said, much the same final cavil applies for other speakers as well. But the way the speaker interacts with the room is different as it is a dipole.

 

[Jim Audiomisc]

PS One caveat I need to add to my above post is nearly every time I’ve heard ‘63s or related they have been either on the end of a Quad 405 (not my favourite Quad amp), or a valve amp. I have never heard them on the end of anything really powerful and I’d not be entirely surprised if a hefty Krell, Conrad Johnson, Pass or whatever woke them up a bit

As a P.S. to my earlier comment. I've always used by ESLs with an Armstrong 732 power amp, but used a modded Quad34 for volume and tone control.