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Help with speakers

Discussion in 'audio' started by Boatmancalls, Nov 19, 2021.

  1. Boatmancalls

    Boatmancalls Member

    I have a question that may sound a bit basic, but hey ho. My system is made up of

    Roon Rock (NUC)
    Aurialic Aries G1 Transport
    Chord TT2 DAC
    MF KW 500 (Js Audio stage 2) Amp
    Neat Ultimatum MFS stand mounts

    I love the sound signature but want to be able to go louder without distortion on occasion.
    I am assuming my Neat speakers are the limiting factor, as anything above above about 40% on the amp sounds a bit muddy to me (maybe 95db about 3m from speakers).
    I don’t have strict budget, but don’t want to pay many thousands, only to get them home and have the same issue. I’m struggling to find somewhere with a similar MF amp to demo so might end up buying blind. I had considered
    • B&W 802 D3 (acceptable aesthetically apparently and good deals),
    • PMC Fact 12 (also)
    • Or I hear great things about Audio Physic speakers.
    Any thoughts on speakers that can go loud with a similar sound to my beloved Neats ?
    Tarzan likes this.
  2. garyi

    garyi leave blank

    Your volume requirements are significant.
    Tarzan and eevo1969 like this.
  3. Fatmarley

    Fatmarley "It appears my intelligence circuits have melted"

    Boatmancalls and RJohan like this.
  4. Yomanze

    Yomanze pfm Member

    Amphion speakers go very loud and stay very clean. A definite strength. Huge soundstage too.
  5. Woodface

    Woodface pfm Member

    ATC actives, make a big change or don’t bother
  6. hifinutt

    hifinutt hifinutt

    Neat ultimatum floorstanders ?
  7. daytona600

    daytona600 Registered User

    Active monitors no problem with 95db about 3m or 30m or 50m
  8. John Phillips

    John Phillips pfm Member

    I cannot comment relative to the sound of your Neats having never heard them. But here are some comments.

    I personally also like 'speakers to have the capability to go fairly loud. Even if I don't actually use that capability, to my ears I get cleaner, less distorted, less "cluttered" reproduction at normal levels. That was one of my goals a few years ago when completely updating my system.

    IMHO "the elephant in the room" is to have bigger bass drivers and/or more technically capable bass drivers or more of them. But the problem is that outside the professional loudspeaker field, the maximum volume capability of a loudspeaker is very rarely revealed. So constructing an audition list is pretty difficult. But broadly I would suggest upwards of 8" modern-design single bass drivers or multiple smaller (not too small) drivers. Professional heritage probably helps.

    If you happen to like an "industrial" aesthetic, Neumann professional active loudspeakers (e.g. KH310). Or in pro & consumer forms ATC is accustomed to providing good SPL capability. I bought ATC SCM50 active 'speakers a few years ago as they were a good match to my room. They are specified as maxing out at 112 dBSPL (a pair, at 1m, in half space I think) so your 3m 95 dBSPL seems within range in a normal room.

    And PMC if course. I found that PMC's smaller consumer products with their signature bass driver loading do seem to my ears to play louder than most similar-sized bass drivers while still sounding clean. However I am less keen on some other aspects of the PMC consumer products I have heard. I have not auditioned the Fact 12 but it might indeed do with its pair of "small" bass units.

    I have heard the B&W 802Ds a few times but not extensively. I didn't hear enough to know if I would like them long term but they did nothing wrong according to my needs with what I heard. However I didn't test them specifically with my normal mix.

    I have not heard anything from Audio Physic. To throw out some ideas how about pro-heritage modern JBL or vintage 10"+ from Tannoy? Yamaha NS1000M?
  9. Tarzan

    Tarzan pfm Member

  10. musfed

    musfed pfm Member

    A few month's later,....I just need to answer. I had Neat Ultimatum Mfs's. Before I turned active.
    Is there a fair chance the acoustics of your room has a mayor influence?
    In my room the MFS went loud without turning muddy. By far not as loud as my current speakers, but they are good.
    Don't underestimate the room.
  11. Colin L

    Colin L High-tech low-life

    As others have said, quite possibly it’s your room. How large is it.
  12. irb

    irb pfm Member

    Couldn't agree more. The laws of physics dictate how much sound a loudspeaker driver can produce for a given excursion, at a given frequency. Smallish woofers can't go loud and deep without lots of excursion, and lots of excursion means lots of distortion. There's unlikely to be any way to get greater volume capability without more wooferage.
  13. Bairnstorm

    Bairnstorm pfm Member

    Big KEF's go well with MF.
    cnocmoy10 likes this.
  14. RichardAusten

    RichardAusten pfm Member

    Higher sensitive speakers tend to sound more open and alive and with more immediacy than low-efficiency speakers. You will find also that they will seem to play louder at lower volume levels because they capture more of the transient and decay behaviour. A good horn speaker (I repeat "good" as most aren't) will play very loud with very low distortion or compression such as speakers from Acapella Audio Arts. But they cost ...a...LOT.

    The thing with LOUDspeakers is that it still comes down to whether you will like the sound of the actual speakers - so yes an ATC can hit very loud with a tight bass sound but will you like them? Most speakers can play comfortably to 95dB - Most horns will be using 3-6 watts of your amp to play 95dB at 3 meters.

    You have not mentioned your room size but you might consider all kinds of speakers - generally, though, HE speakers will give you more of a jump factor sound and as some other people mentioned a large drive can usually sound bigger. I would look at Pure Audio Project over either PMC or B&W which sound IMO too meh to me.

    The Quintett 15 is one of the best bargains in all of audio IMO and has been well-reviewed with SS amps like Pass Labs as well as 4-watt amplifiers from Whammerdyne. They come flat-packed but are easier to put together - IMO they sound better than any B&W speaker including the Nautilus and it's not particularly close. But they do not have the gush gush kind of bass B&W or PMC possess - the sound will be more room-filling and tuneful - they can rock - I use Guns N Roses at audio shows and drive the people running the room from the room. Still, the Quintett's four 15 inch woofers per side is more about high sensitivity than bass drive.


    I believe you can buy them in stages - the bottom three modules and add the top two later if money is tight. They sell several kinds of tweeters so if you don't like the horn you can get a Voxative or Heil - the crossovers are supplied with instructions so you could buy multiple tweeters and change them in and out as you like.


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