Help needed: Rega P2 knocking

[Countryman]

Hi all. Need a bit of help. When I turn in my P2, it runs silently. Within a few minutes there’s a small but audible regular knocking as the platter spins.
i checked the belt, and there’s nothing catching on the sub platter, which is straight and even.
Any suggestions of what to check? Thanks

 

[guydarryl]

Does the P2 use another belt (like the old Planar 2) to suspend the motor from a metal plate? I seem to remember my old Planar 2 knocking when this suspension/belt failed - long time ago though.

 

[Craig B]

Did you happen to be playing Dylan's "Knocking on Heaven's Door" at the time?

If yours is pre-2000 Planar 2 then the motor suspension belt mentioned by @guydarryl likely needs replacing, although you could try a simple motor realignment procedure first, which could easily get you another 5 years before having to replace this belt (provided the deck isn't shipped anywhere).

Drop me a PM/Start a Conversation with your regular e-mail address and I'll forward on the necessary instructions for both replacement and alignment.

 

[hifi-dog]

think the p2 motor is bonded to plinth. Try a different belt? Remove the belt and see if noise is form the motor or the main bearing, if motor try a tiny drop of oil in motor spindle.

 

[Countryman]

It’s the latest P2. When remove the glass platter, there is no knocking. It starts again a few minutes after I put it back on.

 

[Avon]

Knocking implies a loud sound, ticking would be quieter.

But does it repeat rapidly, corresponding to the rotation of the motor pulley, or slowly, corresponding to the platter rotation? In other words, can you tell where it's coming from?

 

[sq225917]

Bearing or motor. Check your oil and ball, check the motor spindle support

 

[david ellwood]

remove the mat so you can see through the platter and take a look at the motor as its knocking.

Might give a clue.

 

[ossy]

My p3 does this occasionally. It’s the (in my case) the motor spindle. Take the belt off and push the motor spindle up and down a few times. Should cure it! (Or it’s something else).

 

[Craig B]

If this 'knocking' is actually more a case of 'ticking', then this implies motor bearings. Try gently pumping the pulley up and down. This redistributes the scant bit of oil that is between motor spindle shaft and sleeve bearings (both top and bottom). Should the noise persist when under load driving the platter, then place one tiny drop of motor oil at the base of the motor spindle where it exits the top bearing (may need to hang this drop off a toothpick in order to direct this in under the pulley).

Jinx pop, @ossy!

 

[Countryman]

Thanks for the suggestions. It’s definite regular knocking, as if something is knocking on something each time the platter spins.
I have removed mat, glass platter and sub-platter but nothing obvious,
The metal drive spindle will not move up nor down.

 

[Craig B]

Thanks for the suggestions. It’s definite regular knocking, as if something is knocking on something each time the platter spins.
I have removed mat, glass platter and sub-platter but nothing obvious,
The metal drive spindle will not move up nor down.

In that case, try removing platter and belt and then lifting the drive hub no more than 2cm upward such that you can see if there exists lube on the spindle shaft.

Note that fully removing the drive hub necessitates re-lubrication of these parts with a specific type of oil. Reason being, there is scant room for more than two drops of lubrication within, therefore, a considerable percentage of same is lost upon reinsertion of a spindle that has been fully removed from the well.

Also, keep in mind that if the deck has been on its side, or upside down, for more than 20 minutes at a time there is likely to be enough lubrication lost to negatively affect performance. Decks that have been individually shipped (as opposed to being stacked on a pallet right side up) should always be checked for sufficient main bearing lubrication before use.

Should there exist sufficient oil then the next thing to check for is the presence of a ball bearing at the bottom of the bearing well. This will require a full cleaning and re-lubrication of the bearing parts post ball inspection and/or replacement.

 

[Countryman]

A little update. I removed the mat, the glass platter and the sub platter. Put a tiny bit of lubricant on the sub platter spindle and it seems to have solved the problem. Thanks.

 

[Craig B]

A little update. I removed the mat, the glass platter and the sub platter. Put a tiny bit of lubricant on the sub platter spindle and it seems to have solved the problem. Thanks.

This is good news that your efforts seem to have solved the problem, however, just because you no longer hear any knocking doesn't necessarily mean that the bearing is able to perform to spec over the long term (i.e. what servicing a main bearing is all about). As such, I strongly recommend that you pull the sub-platter again and thoroughly clean spindle, ball and bearing well thoroughly before lubricating with 2 drops of 80-90wt hypoid gear oil (only). Reason being, one need ensure that one has the sufficient amount of the correct type and weight of lubrication in for both proper bearing performance combined with long term functionality. A drop of Singer or 3-in-One is only going to dilute the properties of the original gear oil. Either may even negatively react with the orignal lube and make things worse long term.

FYI, Rega specify a 20 year lubrication interval for an undisturbed bearing using their suggested lubricant, so this isn't necessarily something that will ever need doing again during your ownership of the deck.

As to specific lubricants, I use the Rega recommended Castrol product. Rega specify Comma Hypoid EP80, Castrol EPX 80w/90 and Shell Spirax EP90 as all being well recommended.

 

[Hazelberry]

Another thing to do is to check that the spindle end doesn't have a big dimple in it, as this will increase noise.

I strongly recommend that you pull the sub-platter again and thoroughly clean spindle, ball and bearing well thoroughly before lubricating with 2 dollops of 80-90wt hypoid gear oil (only).

Whoa! Don't you mean ' 2 drops'?

 

[Craig B]

Another thing to do is to check that the spindle end doesn't have a big dimple in it, as this will increase noise.


Whoa! Don't you mean ' 2 drops'?

Whoops, must have been thinking of my meds. Now corrected.

Certainly worth checking, but I find it hard to imagine the latest P2 having a big dimple in the spindle end. After all, there has to have been some lube down there. Might be slightly scuffed round the top though.

 

[sq225917]

Drop size relates to orifice size, a .5mm syringe drop is tiny a dropper bottle drop much larger.

I always removed the ball filled it up, shook it, inverted i drain for 10 seconds then fitted the ball and sub

 

[Craig B]

Apparently, P10 gets 3 drops in its orifice.

 

[hifi-dog]

Unlikely worn as the p2 is not old.. probably shipped upside down.

 

[Craig B]

Unlikely worn as the p2 is not old.. probably shipped upside down.

Current P2 was introduced in May 2016. As the OP describes his as 'the latest P2' he may not have been using it for long.

As reference, I've a hub/spindle here that had obviously been run dry for a very long time. This from an otherwise minty Planar 3/R200, so April 76 through just prior to April 83 vintage. The original owner pulled the hub out to show me its condition, and it was dry as a bone with a dimple that was hard to miss. Under a magnifying lens the ball looked for all the world like a classic black and white soccer ball. Funny enough, a thorough clean and lube and this deck actually sounded quite good as was. The spindle shaft was surprisingly unmarked and shiny. Regardless, I replaced hub/spindle and ball soon after.

Planar 3/R200 vintage run dry bearing pictured below. Another couple of decades of such abuse and this would have been fully converted to captive ball. Spindle side beautifully burnished to a perfect mirror finish, likely more perfect than when new.

P3 2000 bearing below. Some spindle end forced down marks from bloke who just couldn't resist pulling his out to impress guests. White specs are micro dust particles, as I neglected to give this one a final flick of the duster prior to the shot.

And, here are the balls that came with each. After a good clean I couldn't tell which came with what without using my jewelers loupe. The one one the left isn't actually dull, just not given a polish before taking the photo (could be the one from P3 2000 with dust on above).