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Heard the KEF blades and PMC 20 series

9

9designs

pfm Member
Attended an enjoyable musical evening at Frank Harvey's on Wednesday, had chance to hear the KEF Blades (fronted by top end stack of Cyrus kit)...

Not having read or been influenced in anyway about them, had only seen pictures and knew the price. Have to say my short listen was dissapointing. Admittedly not in an ideal area surround by many other speakers, but KEF must have accepted that !!!
To me the top end was steely and bit hard, mid was bit closed in recessed and I was conscious of the sound coming from two places, not one "wall" of sound. The bass though did seem impressive and like few others, very tight, deep, powerfull and controlled. They didn't hold my attention sadly.

Actually found the PMC 20 series playing in another room much more engaging and balanced ( ok I must be biased as I used FACT 8) they drew me in and kept me listening much longer.

Didn't get to hear what the Naim guy's could do, they spent all the time with the music really low so they could talk power supplies to a few punters :rolleyes:

So thumbs up to PMC, 20 series is an excellent new range, a spin off of the FACTs, going to be very popular I would think.
 
Heard them in manchester they sounded very good indeed, I assume the set up at FH was less than perfect.
 
I've heard them (KEF Blades) a few times, including a domestic situation; I have to say I think they are pretty transparent to the amplification attached, as they have sounded different each time. They did sound a little 'hard' in Manchester (connected to a stack of Electrocompaniet gear), but were very much more polite in the actual (and significantly smaller) living room I heard them in. To be honest, your description of the sound you heard largely sums up my thoughts regarding Cyrus amplification.
 
YNWOAN said:
I've heard them (KEF Blades) a few times, including a domestic situation; I have to say I think they are pretty transparent to the amplification attached, as they have sounded different each time. They did sound a little 'hard' in Manchester (connected to a stack of Electrocompaniet gear), but were very much more polite in the actual (and significantly smaller) living room I heard them in. To be honest, your description of the sound you heard largely sums up my thoughts regarding Cyrus amplification.
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Funny enough one of the Cyrus reps said they were not sounding as good as he had heard them before, perhaps my teasing joke with him about the 30k worth of Cyrus kit driving them was a little bit closer to the truth than I realised :D.
 
If I were spending that much I think I'd have the Muons, just for teh shiney.



(obviously it is only the idea of a manufacturer asking £4k for replacement pair of tweeters which puts me off)
 
spacey said:
Dont all amps sound the same...... anyone....... Serge
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No they don't, however the placement of the speaker, placement of the listeners and chosen replay material will explain the discrepancies for those who've heard them at different times. Why do people nearly always disregard the likely causes for what they hear and look to the far less likely for the answer?

The Cyrus amps aren't nearly odd enough electrically to explain the difference heard.
 
Cyrus.....hmmmm.

I heard the Blade driven by D'Agostino Momentum amplifier and some Gryphon in a less than ideal hotel room a few weeks ago. I thought the whole setup sounded pretty impressive ( so was the price$$$) despite the room, no steely hard top end and not shut in at the time.
 
jaspert said:
Cyrus.....hmmmm.

I heard the Blade driven by D'Agostino Momentum amplifier and some Gryphon in a less than ideal hotel room a few weeks ago. I thought the whole setup sounded pretty impressive ( so was the price$$$) despite the room, no steely hard top end and not shut in at the time.
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There you go then - different room.
Move your listening position even by only a few inches relative to nearly all multiple driver loudspeakers and you'll introduce response changes - often many dB. You are completely at the mercy of the driver interactions, crossover design, and the way that the loudspeaker is interfacing with the room, plus your own interface with the room effects.
Those effects are orders of magnitude greater than the difference between any two technically competent amplifiers.

If you want to isolate any possible Cyrus 'effect' you need to compare it to another amplifier in the same system set up and using the same listening position, properly level matched and preferably blind. Consistently pick out hard and forward top end under such condition for the Cyrus amplifier and you have indeed established that it isn't neutral.
 
Big Cyrus rigs do sound odd though. 'Less is more' has rarely been better made tangible IME.

And YNWOAN, you may have a point ;)
 
I suppose it's all in what we value. For example, I've never considered the changes after moving any speaker around a room significant for my enjoyment like the change in signal quality from a better amp and source. (Shifting the speakers around with a crappy sounding system just adds more or less bass and treble to or better focuses the crap sound.)
 
I did move around the room, and sat in the sweet spot.... didn't help much ;)
Nothing I heard would make me want to swap what I have, so that's a good result for me :D
 
dave said:
I suppose it's all in what we value. For example, I've never considered the changes after moving any speaker around a room significant for my enjoyment like the change in signal quality from a better amp and source. (Shifting the speakers around with a crappy sounding system just adds more or less bass and treble to or better focuses the crap sound.)
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Changes in speaker position (or listening position) won't increase resolution although it can alter your perception of it. But often changes of even a few mm will provide presentation differences that dwarf those between digital sources - unless one of them is grossly inferior in some contrived way. The room/speaker interface relative to where you listen from, will produce by far the biggest influence on what you hear whether that's a domestic or PA system.
 
spacey said:
Dont all amps sound the same...... anyone....... Serge
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No they don't, and no-one, not even me would say that a 3W SET sounds the same as a 200W Krell into a pair of Apogee Scintillas (1 Ohm)

Extremes apart, what I do say, is that all competently designed amplifiers, when used within their design parameters for load and not clipping will be indistinguishable when heard blind and level matched.

That's NOT the same as "All amps sound the same". It's the qualification that matters.

However, that still means that Quad, Naim, Krell, MF, Cyrus and so on will be indistinguishable driving a pair of, say, Harbeths or other well-engineered 'speakers that don't present an extreme load, when level-matched and listened to blind.

S.
 
My cyrus Smartpower sounds different to my Cyrus Xpower and the Xpower sounds different to my mono blocked Xpowers both with psxr and they sound different to the monox300 so thats 4 different sounds just with 4 different cyrus amps and this is into 8ohm and 90 DB speakers and the loudest i play is 70 DB which my 20 watt valve amp manages without a sweat into the same speakers.
 
sergeauckland said:
No they don't, and no-one, not even me would say that a 3W SET sounds the same as a 200W Krell into a pair of Apogee Scintillas (1 Ohm)

Extremes apart, what I do say, is that all competently designed amplifiers, when used within their design parameters for load and not clipping will be indistinguishable when heard blind and level matched.

That's NOT the same as "All amps sound the same". It's the qualification that matters.

However, that still means that Quad, Naim, Krell, MF, Cyrus and so on will be indistinguishable driving a pair of, say, Harbeths or other well-engineered 'speakers that don't present an extreme load, when level-matched and listened to blind.

S.
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I think you posted in the wrong thread....... :rolleyes:
 
sergeauckland said:
However, that still means that Quad, Naim, Krell, MF, Cyrus and so on will be indistinguishable driving a pair of, say, Harbeths or other well-engineered 'speakers that don't present an extreme load, when level-matched and listened to blind.

S.
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I think you mean listened to deaf :D
 
SteveS1 said:
The room/speaker interface relative to where you listen from, will produce by far the biggest influence on what you hear whether that's a domestic or PA system.
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Sorry, but I completely disagree with this tired, old myth.
 
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