Except that it isn't a truism. It's an assertion.
I could more usefully assert "transducers first".
Have dacs changed so much in 10 years.
- Thread starter Dean Jordan
- Start date
I could more usefully assert "transducers first".
tuga
Legal Alien
Indeed. It may be worth noting that turntable cartridges and loudspeaker drivers are both transducers.
davidsrsb
pfm Member
And microphones and guitar pickups. Both are carefully chosen in the studio for their inaccuracies as effects
tuga
Legal Alien
But there's nothing we can do about those.
wd40addict
pfm Member
Some time ago I remember Analog Devices telling me they were annoyed with some US boutique manufacturer who had just boxed up one of AD's DAC demo boards and was selling it as a (probably very expensive) product! Presumably they wanted a DAC in their range, but had no expertise to do it themselves.
John
Rack’em Up!
These exact state of the art DAC chips found in high-end boutique gear are also used in the following applications:
- AV Receivers, CD / SACD Players, Network Audio, USB DACs, USB Headphones, Sound Plate / Bars, Measurement Equipment, Control Systems, Public Audio (PA), Smart Cellular Phones, IC-Recorders, Bluetooth Headphones and HD Audio / Voice Conference Systems
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davidsrsb
pfm Member
I've come across that trick before.
Also I have seen commercial products PCBs slapped into a green box and claimed to be MIL Spec
If you read the informative post #16 on page 1 as supplied by @tuga you'll find answers to your questions. Did you read it? Have you ever heard an Ayre DAC or any other of that caliber?
I own a Wadia 15 DAC, now about 30years old and plays redbook only which I do not find to be a handicap. I have compared my '15' to many including the Chord Dave mentioned earlier. I belonged to our local 'old farts club' where many different DACs were auditioned but none of the contenders were able to unseat mine. Wadia was then, along with Theta, the highest performers available. IMO the Theta Mk V sounded less engaging and also lacking the famous Wadia low frequency solidity and heft. All comparisons were of course redbook.
I'm sure there are modern inexpensive DACs that have superior specs to my unit but I'm yet to hear anything unseat it in terms of being entertained for hours without fatigue. Just glorious immersive sound.
Before anyone asks, no blind testing was done nor needed. The comparisons entailed using the same isolated platform (Townshend) where the lighter DACS were provided with added weight to bring them in line with the optimal loading required by Towshend, level matched using pink noise and my OmniMic V2 measurement system with the same power cable and interconnects which were single ended as some of the other DACs did not have AES/EBU input/output.
John Phillips
pfm Member
Yes but maybe it's possible to step back for a sense of perspective.
If someone takes a look at the noise floor of pristine vinyl of the very best possible quality, plus the tracking (tracing?) error distortion of a tangental tonearm, plus the linear and non-linear distortions of a cartidge, they might wonder why people are so exercised about imperfections in DACs that have for a long time been tiny compared those that pass unnoticed and unremarked in a different context.
For the avoidance of doubt I have heard and enjoyed some excellent vinyl playback systems, so this is not an analogue - digital argument in support of either side.
But perhaps not having a sense of perspective is essential to this hobby. Maybe my original premise is not possible after all.
camverton
pfm Member
Most amusing. As I‘m sure you’re aware you don’t “need” very expensive cables, switches or even whatnots. In some cases, with a very good system and a good or fussy pair of ears they can raise a high level of sound quality a tad further but that doesn’t mean anybody needs them.
martin clark
pinko bodger
Addition of noise sources, really does not work like that. Acoustics 101.
allthingsanalog
pfm Member
My recently recapped TAG DAC20 still sounds superb and far, far better than it should for 2024. In actual fact I’ve found it almost impossible to beat but my new Denon DCD-A110 cd player edges it, but not as much as you’d think.
There's a reason Sugden still make a DAC with an outdated 90's Philips chip.
There's a reason Sugden still make a DAC with an outdated 90's Philips chip.
My recently recapped TAG DAC20 still sounds superb and far, far better than it should for 2024. In actual fact I’ve found it almost impossible to beat but my new Denon DCD-A110 cd player edges it, but not as much as you’d think.
There's a reason Sugden still make a DAC with an outdated 90's Philips chip.
I have one of these. Did having it recapped make any noticeable difference to its performance?
allthingsanalog
pfm Member
Yes. I was absolutely shocked by the improvement. Many of the caps, especially under the can were out of speed as it gets quite warn underneath.
I'd definitely rate it as one of my all time favourite dacs, even though it's cd resolution. Tbh, I haven't been impressed with hires at all so it definitely suits my needs. I kind of think that Philips and Sony had the right approach for digital at 16bit 44.1k. I now only buy cd's for digital playback after shifting all my streaming kit.
Curtis
pfm Member
It’s funny isn’t it.
Some people who used to be able to afford to shop in M&S, Waitrose etc who now shop in Aldi etc due to lack of income often comment saying the meat etc is just as good.
It isn’t but maybe it makes them feel better about their current situation.
Point being entry level dacs/hifi has always been perfectly adequate.
Some people who used to be able to afford to shop in M&S, Waitrose etc who now shop in Aldi etc due to lack of income often comment saying the meat etc is just as good.
It isn’t but maybe it makes them feel better about their current situation.
Point being entry level dacs/hifi has always been perfectly adequate.