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Has the digital out of streamers improved over last 10 years

clownfish

clownfish

It's all in the details
Can I buy an inexpensive streamer with digital out that will equal, or better, the performance of my Allo DigiOne Signature / Pi? I'd like it to be a fully baked product that allows streaming from the usual services as well as a NAS, offers a great UI, connects to a Qutest and preferably offers a choice of connecting over both ethernet and wifi.

For context, I am delighted with the SQ I get from the Allo / Qutest combo. I'm less enamoured with the occasional troubleshooting I have to do for LMS (on a separate Pi) and the Allo endpoint and would really like to use a product that offers no such aggravation.

FWIW I currently run an Allo DigiOne Signature / Pi into a Qutest DAC which feeds a Luxman 505 UX II driving a pair of ProAc D20r speakers. Sources today are Tidal and NAS. A also have a 1210 GR which is very enjoyable!

I'm not a believer that all digital sources are equal simply from my experiences of comparing them over the years. I did compare the Allo at length to the streaming stage of my SuperUniti and found it superior. I have also compared the Allo with a MacBook Pro and ultimately found the MBP wanting compared to the Allo (perhaps because it used USB into the Qutest rather than SPDIF). But perhaps Digital has come on significantly in the last 10 years and even inexpensive sources such as the Wiim Mini would equal the Allo?
 
Yes, there are potential improvements to be had by using a 'better' network bridge. Whether this represents vfm to you is something for you to decide. Many will say 'bits are bits' and there are no differences. My extensive experience indicates otherwise.

How much do you want to spend? New ir used?

Home network 'tuning' can often also provide some gains; this mostly applies to wired ethernet connection, not wireless.

There's loads and loads of similar threads to this here and elsewhere; have a dig around.
 
@clownfish from your post I think you already know the answer is ‘yes’.

As you use the Qutest you also seem to realise that the Chord Dacs often sound best with bnc input.

So all I can suggest is visiting a few dealers and listening. The other alternative is to ask PFM members local to you to pop over with the streamers they like. That would be best then you get to hear in your own system.
 
I did in fact own both a Digione Sig (and Pi3b, then USBridge sig) and a Qutest around the same time a couple of years ago. I moved from the Allo gear back to using M- series Macs for SQ reasons (also sold the Qutest as it wasn't to my taste).

You don't say what PSUs you use, or which Pi, this can make quite a difference IME.

My take on your question, the digital side has improved but it's hard to extrapolate that to a specific system and good power supplies still cost (whether as 3rd party add-ons or engineered inside the streamer box and added to the price).
 
Apparently newer streamers reduce noise, jitter and all that in a superior manner.

The effect is hard to explain, just calmer, easier to listen to, with less fatigue. Some people call this removal of "digital hash". As just mentioned PSU can have a significant effect too.

I noticed a difference going from Allo One Sig > iFi Zen Stream > Eversolo DMP-A8 (currently waiting on a new Silent Angel streamer) each step SQ being cleaner and nicer, for want of a better word.
 
clownfish said:
Can I buy an inexpensive streamer with digital out that will equal, or better, the performance of my Allo DigiOne Signature / Pi? I'd like it to be a fully baked product that allows streaming from the usual services as well as a NAS, offers a great UI, connects to a Qutest and preferably offers a choice of connecting over both ethernet and wifi.

For context, I am delighted with the SQ I get from the Allo / Qutest combo. I'm less enamoured with the occasional troubleshooting I have to do for LMS (on a separate Pi) and the Allo endpoint and would really like to use a product that offers no such aggravation.

FWIW I currently run an Allo DigiOne Signature / Pi into a Qutest DAC which feeds a Luxman 505 UX II driving a pair of ProAc D20r speakers. Sources today are Tidal and NAS. A also have a 1210 GR which is very enjoyable!

I'm not a believer that all digital sources are equal simply from my experiences of comparing them over the years. I did compare the Allo at length to the streaming stage of my SuperUniti and found it superior. I have also compared the Allo with a MacBook Pro and ultimately found the MBP wanting compared to the Allo (perhaps because it used USB into the Qutest rather than SPDIF). But perhaps Digital has come on significantly in the last 10 years and even inexpensive sources such as the Wiim Mini would equal the Allo?
Click to expand...
How much £ is inexpensive?

Suspect too spendy - Auralic Aries and Lumin U1 Mini would be my shout unless you’d consider a unit combining Streamer and DAC in one box, then there are a number of options.
 
For inexpensive, good APP, rj45 & WiFi, digital (coax & Opt) out, streaming services and NAS, look no further than the Wiim Pro at ~£150. I use one in system 2 powered by a Chifi 5v LPSU fed unto a Caimen SEG50 and its shockingly good for the money.
 
Doesn't the Qutest have a buffered/resampling optical input? So, unless you want to send > 192KHz music down to the Qutest, I'm not sure what benefits would be achieved. Jitter isn't an issue with these DACs. Rob Watts seems to like optical very much. What are the issues you are having with LMS?
 
Thank's everyone. Lots of food for thought there.

The primary issue is sometimes I just get a bit fed up when I can't just sit down, spin up the iphone and streaming just works. Sometimes LMS and Ropieee XL aren't seeing each other. Sometimes LMS seems to have disappeared and I need to start scrambling around and rebooting things, check this and that, etc. I'm perfectly capable of doing it but if I only have 40 mins to sit and listen I don't feel like spending 20 faffing around. So once it has stopped working it might be weeks before I'm motivated to resolve the issue.

I'm delighted with the sound and not really asking for more. Equally I believe the streaming platforms will continue to evolve and don't want to be locked into something that's more than say £600. I love that I can just update the s/w on the Pi, use Roon if I want, etc. but don't love the pita that sometimes comes with it.

I guess the Wiim stuff has caught my eye and am wondering whether digital has advanced enough for the new baseline to equal the Allo. I use a Shanti PSU and could easily deploy that on a Wiim to see if it helped.

@Amber Audio, thanks, should I look at a combined streamer Dac is a good point I hadn't really considered? The only other thing the Dac is used for is TV sound so its more than possible. That changes the game completely as selling the Qutest would add to the funds.
 
Columbo said:
Apparently newer streamers reduce noise, jitter and all that in a superior manner.
Click to expand...
If a streamer has an asynchronous USB output then there is no relevant jitter that can be reduced. The controlling clock, and hence any potential source of jitter, is in the DAC. The clue is in the name. Asynchronous.
 
clownfish said:
Thank's everyone. Lots of food for thought there.

The primary issue is sometimes I just get a bit fed up when I can't just sit down, spin up the iphone and streaming just works. Sometimes LMS and Ropieee XL aren't seeing each other. Sometimes LMS seems to have disappeared and I need to start scrambling around and rebooting things, check this and that, etc. I'm perfectly capable of doing it but if I only have 40 mins to sit and listen I don't feel like spending 20 faffing around. So once it has stopped working it might be weeks before I'm motivated to resolve the issue.

I'm delighted with the sound and not really asking for more. Equally I believe the streaming platforms will continue to evolve and don't want to be locked into something that's more than say £600. I love that I can just update the s/w on the Pi, use Roon if I want, etc. but don't love the pita that sometimes comes with it.

I guess the Wiim stuff has caught my eye and am wondering whether digital has advanced enough for the new baseline to equal the Allo. I use a Shanti PSU and could easily deploy that on a Wiim to see if it helped.

@Amber Audio, thanks, should I look at a combined streamer Dac is a good point I hadn't really considered? The only other thing the Dac is used for is TV sound so its more than possible. That changes the game completely as selling the Qutest would add to the funds.
Click to expand...
Digital transports / streamers that does sample rate conversion are never fully transparent. And unfortunately they are many. The WiiM doesnt do SRC , not even when using the digital volume control thru spdif out . It follows the sample rate of the input signal.

The WiiM pro digital output with a good power supply is soundvice on par with an early Linn klimax DS/0 and the digital volume regulation on the WiiM is very good sounding. I didnt really believe that before I tested it.

Read more here:

pinkfishmedia.net

Linn Klimax DS renew vs WiiM pro + Rega dac R - sound quality comparison

Recently I had the opportunity to have a Linn klimax DS renew in my listening room for some days, doing extended listening comparisons with a Rega dac R and a WiiM pro as a digital drive. This gave very interesting results using TIDAL . After testing the WiiM pro as a digital transport for...
pinkfishmedia.net pinkfishmedia.net
 
I've just moved from a Squeezebox Touch to a Wiim Pro streaming Qobuz into a Qutest as I was unable to resolve buffering issues with the Touch on 196khz tracks. The Wiim Pro was very easy to set up and has worked flawlessly for 3 weeks with no buffering issues. I bought a Co-ax to BNC cable and the sound via this route is exactly the same as optical to my ears. Very pleased with the Wiim as the app is also excellent
 
Fizzy said:
I've just moved from a Squeezebox Touch to a Wiim Pro streaming Qobuz into a Qutest as I was unable to resolve buffering issues with the Touch on 196khz tracks. The Wiim Pro was very easy to set up and has worked flawlessly for 3 weeks with no buffering issues. I bought a Co-ax to BNC cable and the sound via this route is exactly the same as optical to my ears. Very pleased with the Wiim as the app is also excellent
Click to expand...
I did the same. Was a great move and I can still use it as a Squeezebox emulator if I wish to as it utilises Squeezelite , a welcome surprise.
 
Not recommending any particular product here, but I've recently swapped a Cambridge Audio Dac magic after using it for 9 years.. for an eversolo DMP A6 ME both fed into a Naim DAC and the Eversolo was a noticeable upgrade in terms of transparency.

This was a big surprise, as I thought the Naim DAC relocked everything etc
 
sometimesuk said:
Not recommending any particular product here, but I've recently swapped a Cambridge Audio Dac magic after using it for 9 years.. for an eversolo DMP A6 ME both fed into a Naim DAC and the Eversolo was a noticeable upgrade in terms of transparency.

This was a big surprise, as I thought the Naim DAC relocked everything etc
Click to expand...
I assume your using USB into your Naim DAC.
 
Fergus said:
I assume your using USB into your Naim DAC.
Click to expand...
No SPDIF.. I don't believe the USB input is suitable for streaming, just memory sticks? Plus it's on the front of the the machine...

Just checked, one is on the back... Never tried it for streaming, might give that a ago. Would it make a difference?
 
From what I understand when using SPDIF the data is “clocked out” by the streamer so I imagine you are simply benefitting from the better streamer. When using USB the data is “requested and clocked” by the DAC and a better streamer might be less of a benefit. They say used as a streamer only using USB there is no point in having the A6 ME, the standard item would be just as good. I too have an A6 ME but I use it‘s own DAC.
 
Fergus said:
From what I understand when using SPDIF the data is “clocked out” by the streamer so I imagine you are simply benefitting from the better streamer. When using USB the data is “requested and clocked” by the DAC and a better streamer might be less of a benefit. They say used as a streamer only using USB there is no point in having the A6 ME, the standard item would be just as good. I too have an A6 ME but I use it‘s own DAC.
Click to expand...
The ME is meant to have better clocks... Which is one reason I got it. Don't they control the "bits" being sent
 
sometimesuk said:
The ME is meant to have better clocks... Which is one reason I got it. Don't they control the "bits" being sent
Click to expand...
It does have better clocks but now you are getting beyond what I understand! Using it with SPDIF probably brings its better clocks into play.
 
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