Has anyone bought a product because of a recommendation on ASR?

[Woodface]

The main consideration should be how the speakers work with your room. Active speakers probably allow a cheaper product that measures well to work, particularly in the digital domain.

As ever pinning you flag to either an extreme objectivist or subjectivist hill will probably not lead to happiness.

 

[camverton]

The main consideration should be how the speakers work with your room. Active speakers probably allow a cheaper product that measures well to work, particularly in the digital domain.

As ever pinning you flag to either an extreme objectivist or subjectivist hill will probably not lead to happiness.

Absolutely, speakers and the way they react with the room are key, particularly the types of speaker I most enjoy listening to..

Sadly, MBL, German Physics and Quad stats are not made in an active version so I have to choose a suitable amp. Curiously, my MBL amp works particularly with the Quad stats and less well than other amps with their own speakers, all of which probably speaks more of my taste than anything else, but let's be thankful that we have choices and aren't regulated in our choice by a finest measuring amp is best for you mentality.

 

[MVV]

I like the place, was reintroduced by this thread. Thanks. Searched for a few bits I really liked and rather satisfyingly found they measured really well.

 

[Somafunk]

Absolutely, speakers and the way they react with the room are key, particularly the types of speaker I most enjoy listening to..

If you read the measurements and klippel data you can see the directivity and spread of the speakers as well as the ideal listening distance, there’s absolutely nothing to dislike about having measurements to inform you of how a speaker will work for your situation

 

[camverton]

If you read the measurements and klippel data you can see the directivity and spread of the speakers as well as the ideal listening distance, there’s absolutely nothing to dislike about having measurements to inform you of how a speaker will work for your situation

Who said I disliked measurements? Having said that they won't tell me much, other than frequency range, about how an omni or dipole will sound in my room as the sound I hear, particularly with these types of speaker, is the product of speaker and room and rooms vary greatly. FYI I use REW as an aid when setting up speakers although final positioning is assessed by listening and for me the most important aspect of the sound is giving the most realistic illusion of muscians playing in front of me.

If you can predict how an omni will sound in any of the different rooms in my house, some lively and some damped with sloping ceilings, from looking at klippel data than you are a lot cleverer than me. Perhaps you think or maybe believe you can .

 

[tuga]

Who said I disliked measurements? Having said that they won't tell me much, other than frequency range, about how an omni or dipole will sound in my room as the sound I hear, particularly with these types of speaker, is the product of speaker and room and rooms vary greatly. FYI I use REW as an aid when setting up speakers although final positioning is assessed by listening and for me the most important aspect of the sound is giving the most realistic illusion of muscians playing in front of me.

If you can predict how an omni will sound in any of the different rooms in my house, some lively and some damped with sloping ceilings, from looking at klippel data than you are a lot cleverer than me. Perhaps you think or maybe believe you can .

It’s mostly the stereo effect that is hard to predict in different rooms, and that is not particular to omnis either.

Interestingly or perhaps sadly that part of the conversation is unpleasantly shut down by ASR’s forum owner. Were it not for his (unscientific) beliefs and obnoxious manners that forum could have been a really interesting space, benefiting from the input of many experts (JJ, Ool, Mitchco, Toole,etc.) and manufacturers (from Benchmark, Dutch&Dutch, Genelec, Kef, RME, etc.) who have not yet been banned or stopped posting (Winer, Laako).

In spite of the sloppy presentation skills and some degree of carelessness the measurements are on the whole a good source of information, but Amir still acts like a childish John Atkinson wannabe who tries to hide his limitations or gaps in knowledge (mostly based on the Harman research) with religious fervour. He’s often corrected but hardly ever acknowledges this and will sometimes get back by banning the ‘perpetrators’ or locking topics.

A mocking attitude towards all things subjective has attracted a substantial community of largely ignorant objectivists, a church that reveres him and is happy to amplify anything which reflects their beliefs and approach to the hobby (Purite). They’re not any different from hardline subjectivists in that sense, they just have a different set of beliefs…

An opportunity has been lost, and some of the more knowledgeable and sane members have started to lose interest or comment.

 

[camverton]

It’s not just the stereo effect that can be hard to predict with omnis but their potential for creating a 3D “holographic” sort of image of an instrument being played. Dipoles by comparison are relatively 2D but IME still more convincing than any box speaker I’ve heard.

This illusion, for that is what it is, depends on the relationship of the omni speaker to the room which affects the amount of delay, diffuseness, and reduction in volume of multiple reflections reaching the listening position after the direct sound. Get the positioning wrong and a pleasant but slightly diffuse, sound could result. Get it right and the image will snap into focus with a tangible presence. To understand what an omni can achieve requires knowledge of, and positioning within, the room, something that no klippel or anechoic measurement can provide. The illusion also depends, more so then other types of speaker, on the hearing of the listener. If there were ever speakers that needed auditioning in the room in which they are going to be used they are omnis and to a lesser extent dipoles.

Reactions to hearing my speakers at my house have ranged from “Good god it sounds as if you have an actual piano in here” through “ah, that sounds like music being played” to “Well I can see that it makes a big pleasant sound”. People’s hearing and perceptions vary which is why the idea that one can get all one needs to know from measurements is, imho, essentially false and very short sighted, or should that be short eared.

 

[Del monaco]

It’s not just the stereo effect that can be hard to predict with omnis but their potential for creating a 3D “holographic” sort of image of an instrument being played. Dipoles by comparison are relatively 2D but IME still more convincing than any box speaker I’ve heard.

This illusion, for that is what it is, depends on the relationship of the omni speaker to the room which affects the amount of delay, diffuseness, and reduction in volume of multiple reflections reaching the listening position after the direct sound. Get the positioning wrong and a pleasant but slightly diffuse, sound could result. Get it right and the image will snap into focus with a tangible presence. To understand what an omni can achieve requires knowledge of, and positioning within, the room, something that no klippel or anechoic measurement can provide. The illusion also depends, more so then other types of speaker, on the hearing of the listener. If there were ever speakers that needed auditioning in the room in which they are going to be used they are omnis and to a lesser extent dipoles.

Reactions to hearing my speakers at my house have ranged from “Good god it sounds as if you have an actual piano in here” through “ah, that sounds like music being played” to “Well I can see that it makes a big pleasant sound”. People’s hearing and perceptions vary which is why the idea that one can get all one needs to know from measurements is, imho, essentially false and very short sighted, or should that be short eared.

I get similar reactions with my LRS speakers. The speakers really reveal the layers of a presentation adding space and depth. I have no intention of returning to boxes. I’m playing a late 70s vinyl of a Beethoven piano and violin sonata. Sounds great through the speakers.

 

[vesuvian]

In answer to the OP's question, I'd be more likely to buy a product that wasn't recommended by ASR.

If Topping gear is your idea of state-of-the-art then I commiserate with you.

 

[camverton]

I get similar reactions with my LRS speakers. The speakers really reveal the layers of a presentation adding space and depth. I have no intention of returning to boxes. I’m playing a late 70s vinyl of a Beethoven piano and violin sonata. Sounds great through the speakers.

Magnepans are a make/design I’ve always mean’t to try but never quite got around to it. I did have an Apogee hybrid once and that was very impressive, at least above iirc 800Hz. I heard them at a show and it was one of those rare experiences where the loudspeakers disappeared and it seemed that real music was being played, not just a clever facsimile. Would I be right in thinking the Magnepans have a similar presentation to stats like Logans or Quads? Not that they are that alike of course.

 

[Del monaco]

I find them more immediate than Logan’s.I always find the Hybrid Logan’s problematic and not very seamless through the range. Never heard Quads. Though the LRS were twice the price in the UK, I was gobsmacked that this quality could be had for $650 in the US. The best speakers I have owned by a long mile. The REL sub is quick enough to keep up and add some bass extension which is needed for some of my orchestral pieces. I did think about moving up the range but I am quite happy that the LRSs are right for my listening space. And the Yammy has enough current drive them.

 

[camverton]

In answer to the OP's question, I'd be more likely to buy a product that wasn't recommended by ASR.

If Topping gear is your idea of state-of-the-art then I commiserate with you.

I had a similar experience with a certain dealer! Through practical experience of some of the items he stocked I learn’t that what he sold was most definitely not to my taste. He was useful like that, if not in any other way.

 

[beammeup]

ASR is great for looking at measured performance, which if it's very poor, then perhaps worth looking more closely in to. But assuming there is a clear correlation between SNR and good sound is just dumb

After spending a day listening to 4 Ethernet switches added to a streaming chain at a fellow audiophiles house with 3 others in a fun A-B of no additional switches in the chain up to 4 and stock swichmode power supplies then linear, made me realise we have a lot to understand and measure. I have no vested interest, don't stream and was dying to say it would could make no difference but....

Blimey 4 switches and linear power supplies was better by some margin than none.... how would ASR measure that ?

This is why it's easier to stick with an Auralic streamer where it's recommended by the designer that their wireless implementation is better than a physical wired connection. No need for switches at all near the equipment or the worry about the frailness of a switched Ethernet link. The wireless connection (make sure it's good though) gives you the galvanic (if that's the right word) separation you need between the streamer and the router.

But that is another debate.

 

[unit]

I bought my minidsp flex based, in part, on an ASR review. They said it didn’t add any audible colour or distortion to the signal and as far as I can tell, it doesn’t (except when I want it to).

 

[Octavian]

After spending a day listening to 4 Ethernet switches added to a streaming chain at a fellow audiophiles house with 3 others in a fun A-B of no additional switches in the chain up to 4 and stock swichmode power supplies then linear, made me realise we have a lot to understand and measure. I have no vested interest, don't stream and was dying to say it would could make no difference but....

Blimey 4 switches and linear power supplies was better by some margin than none.... how would ASR measure that ?

As already mentioned in this thread measurements cannot always correlate with all subjective impressions. The measurements may be insufficient, invalid or unreliable. Then again the subjective impressions may be partly or wholly generated by psychological factors. I see the latter as at least a very real possibility when listening to pieces of network equipment. Do you think you could repeat your findings in a test where you do not know which piece of gear is playing? If you are not willing to try this, would you agree that it might be too early to cast doubt on ASR measurements (or measurements in general)?

 

[sq225917]

Funny how some people claim to hear stuff that can't be measured yet are less bothered about stuff that can easily be measured.

 

[Del monaco]

 

[Mike1965]

 

[tuga]

It’s not just the stereo effect that can be hard to predict with omnis but their potential for creating a 3D “holographic” sort of image of an instrument being played. Dipoles by comparison are relatively 2D but IME still more convincing than any box speaker I’ve heard.

This illusion, for that is what it is, depends on the relationship of the omni speaker to the room which affects the amount of delay, diffuseness, and reduction in volume of multiple reflections reaching the listening position after the direct sound. Get the positioning wrong and a pleasant but slightly diffuse, sound could result. Get it right and the image will snap into focus with a tangible presence. To understand what an omni can achieve requires knowledge of, and positioning within, the room, something that no klippel or anechoic measurement can provide. The illusion also depends, more so then other types of speaker, on the hearing of the listener. If there were ever speakers that needed auditioning in the room in which they are going to be used they are omnis and to a lesser extent dipoles.

Reactions to hearing my speakers at my house have ranged from “Good god it sounds as if you have an actual piano in here” through “ah, that sounds like music being played” to “Well I can see that it makes a big pleasant sound”. People’s hearing and perceptions vary which is why the idea that one can get all one needs to know from measurements is, imho, essentially false and very short sighted, or should that be short eared.

My view and experience as an amateur and end user is that the speaker/room interaction (which you describe as "amount of delay, diffuseness, and reduction in volume of multiple reflections") has the most impact on the stereo effect, and I’ve read expert work and comments which seem to support my findings.
Although it focuses more on ‘imaging’ than ‘soundstage’, there’s a related topic on ASR about this worth reading called “Properties of speakers that creates a large and precise soundstage” started by speaker designer Thorbjørn Sigberg

 

[tuga]

People’s hearing and perceptions vary which is why the idea that one can get all one needs to know from measurements is, imho, essentially false and very short sighted, or should that be short eared.

Even though one can roughly predict the tonal balance of a speaker in a room from measurements (Erin's reviews prove that), one cannot predict the stereo effect produced by a given speaker in a particular room (I do think it is possible to use prior listening experience to ballpark the kind of effect one would expect from a certain speaker topology).

This is why I have been so vociferous against single-speaker listening, Harman's approach to speaker quality listening assessment (and was consequently banned).
Toole concluded that since narrow directivity dipoles (Quad ESL) scored badly when listened to solo but highly when listened in stereo then mono listening should be used for assessment because it shows more difference in the scoring of different speakers (more difference = better discrimination). Whilst I agree that this may provide a better insight into frequency response deviations and driver or cabinet resonances, it also fails as a means to determine the stereo-generating qualities/capabilities of a speaker - which obviously requires at least to speakers to function. Besides, no audiophile or 'focused' listener listens to music in mono.