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Has anyone bought a product because of a recommendation on ASR?

adamdea said:
It's true up to a point. You can hear sounds with an amplitude lower than the total noise level across the audible range. But AIUI you can't hear sounds with a amplitude lower than the noise level in the particular frequency bin (out of the bins into which your ear divides sounds) into which that sound falls. So in the case of 16 bit audio you can resolve a tone down to about -115dB below signal, unlike a measurement device which can resolve it at a much lower level because it can in effect divide the noise floor into an unlimited number of bins .

This is just one tone in the presence of noise with the sound turned up really high - if there was another tone at a much higher level your chances of resolving the -115dB tone are slim, however loud you turned up your stereo..

Alternatively if you take one phon, being the experimentally established quietest sound one can possibly hear*, then that would be 120dB below the loudest sound one could listen to, even for a very short period. Hence we can be pretty sure that something which measures at -120dB could never be heard on anyone's stereo (assuming it was not turned up to a volume which would seriously harm you) ever, even ignoring masking effect or noise floors.

* Yes such a thing exists.
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Which is one of the major failings of a lot of the group on ASR. There are many on there that will tell you they can hear noise at -120dBFS or lower. Well I'm sure they probably can if they're just listening to their system with no signal passing through it and maybe with the volume turned up somewhat. But given that even an incredibly "silent" listening environment is going to be 20dBA (reality is closer to 30dBA in most cases) and assuming you can hear (at our most sensitive frequencies) to around 8dBA below that noise floor, then to hear a signal at -120dB would require the 0dB volume to be at around 132dBA. Even allowing for the music being on "average" at a level of -20dBFS would mean the average music level would still be well over 110dBA to be able to hear that -120dBFS signal (and that's assuming there is no masking going on, which we all know is not the case).
 
No, i wouldn't buy anything on that sites say so, which is interesting, because i have made choices on products based on others.

I think it's due to their purely objective leanings - not for me.
 
gez said:
There are many on there that will tell you they can hear noise at -120dBFS or lower. Well I'm sure they probably can if they're just listening to their system with no signal passing through it and maybe with the volume turned up somewhat.
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I've been on there for years and that is not my impression at all, I'd like to see the evidence of your claims seeing as you don't use that forum.
 
Is I were a cheap Dac maker and I had a captive audience and a forum leader willing to listen and give me ‘positive’ measurement reviews I would see it as a good gateway into selling my wares that measure so well. It’s just good, logical marketing.Not imagination. And a good way of adding some ‘credibility’ to my wares maybe.
 
It is really odd how tribal this is. It seems simple to me with digital stuff I would check a couple of bits in terms of how they measure then have listen and buy whatever I prefer, understanding it may be I preferred the prettier one because I was taken by it's knob feel.
 
MVV said:
It is really odd how tribal this is. It seems simple to me with digital stuff I would check a couple of bits in terms of how they measure then have listen and buy whatever I prefer, understanding it may be I preferred the prettier one because I was taken by it's knob feel.
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Sure, why not?
 
Tony L said:
The signal to noise ratio of this thread has now reached measurable levels.
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It did pretty well though and is a credit to PFM that I think there was more light than heat and certainly as the OP I have learned a bit.

My takeaway is that measurements can show up issues and would be good for warning about questionable products but once a certain level is reached the measurements themselves probably don’t necessarily give any huge indication of sound quality. That perhaps ASR is, in Which? parlance, better a picking “do not buy” rather than “best buy” products - and all with exceptions as there will always be exceptions.

@Tony L feel free to close the thread of you wish as it has gone circular and I don’t think there is too much more to be said.

.sjb
 
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