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Hard to Drive the PMC MB2 SE?

Mike Hanson

Mike Hanson

Trying to understand...
My friend had a demo of the PMC prodigy5 followed by their fact.8 signature. He fell in love with the PMC sound, although he felt like he might go for the fact.12 signature instead. For reference, he brought along his amp for the demo, which is a dual mono that I built for him using Avondale SE200 modules. It had no problems with the prodigy5 and fact.8 sig, and the shop owner was quite impressed with the amp as well. (FYI, this amp is approximately 100W/ch, and can provide significant current when needed.)

Then he got the opportunity to buy a used MB2 SE, which is much more expensive. That deal isn't complete, and logistics may cause it to fall through.

In the meantime, he talked with a friend who knows PMC speakers well. His friend stated that the MB2 SE requires a very powerful amp to wake up the woofers, and without that the bass would sound flubby. Needless to say, this concerned my friend. :rolleyes: Some additional points of context:
  • The MB2 SE has a stated sensitivity of 90dB, with a recommended amplifier power of 10-500W. (Yes that's quite the range!)
  • PMC has another speaker called the MB2S that seems to have the same drivers and virtually identical enclosure, but it's part of their Studio range. It's stated sensitivity is a touch higher at 91dB, with a recommended amplifier power of 200-800W. :eek:
  • My friend's friend who knows PMC has much experience setting up studios, then also moved into home audio. Therefore, he may be confusing these two speakers.
Given the similarities between these two models, I'm surprised at the different recommendations for amplifier power. Perhaps it's just marketing, with PMC realizing that studios won't balk needing a massive amp, but this would scare away many home audio enthusiasts. And of course studios tend to crank the volume very regularly. Or perhaps the two speakers really are different.

Is there anyone out there with experience of either of these speakers? What type of amp did you use? Do you feel it needs a big amp, or is 100W from an Avondale amp sufficient? Is the bass flubby when it's underpowered?

Thanks for any insight that you can provide?
 
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And a follow-up question. How does this speaker sound at lower volumes? My friend wants it to sound alive at all volume levels.

I have the same preference, which is one of the reasons why I like my Klipsch Cornwall IV. Prior to that I had the Royd Albion, which needed the wick turned up to come alive. I was doing most of my listening at lower volumes, so I changed to the Royd RR3, which sounds full and sophisticated at lower volumes. Turn it up, though, and it sounds confused.

So my friend is hoping that the Avondale SE200 is sufficient to drive them, an that they sound alive (both dynamic and tight) at all volumes. What say you, pink fishies?
 
hifi_dave said:
To save any confusion why don't you contact PMC and ask. They are very helpful.
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I'll suggest that to my friend. I'm not sure whether they'll respond quickly enough for the deal to happen this Monday, though. And I wonder whether the answer would be any more fulsome than their official recommendation on their site.

Regardless, I'm hoping to get corroborating reports from owners in the real world.
 
You really need the speaker impedance curve to understand the power requirements and a brief web search didn't bring one up. My guess from the limited info we have (i.e. 200-800W amp required) is that this speaker has a cruel phase angle curve which means that at some frequencies more power might be dissipated by the output devices in the amp than what ends up in the drivers.

Take sensitivity with a pinch of salt as it may only be measured at one frequency and the manufactures don't give the necessary info to make it meaningful.

DV
 
Mike Hanson said:
My friend had a demo of the PMC prodigy5 followed by their fact.8 signature. He fell in love with the PMC sound, although he felt like he might go for the fact.12 signature instead. For reference, he brought along his amp for the demo, which is a dual mono that I built for him using Avondale SE200 modules. It had no problems with the prodigy5 and fact.8 sig, and the shop owner was quite impressed with the amp as well. (FYI, this amp is approximately 100W/ch, and can provide significant current when needed.)

Then he got the opportunity to buy a used MB2 SE, which is much more expensive. That deal isn't complete, and logistics may cause it to fall through.
...
Is there anyone out there with experience of either of these speakers? What type of amp did you use? Do you feel it needs a big amp, or is 100W from an Avondale amp sufficient. Is the bass flubby when it's underpowered?
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I think you may find an MB2 SE owner and some relevant comparison comments in the vicinity of this post.
 
If he was impressed with the Fact 8 i would think he will be gobsmacked with the MB2se. I found them a massive improvement even over the Fact 12.
When i bought mine i was initially interested in the IB2se but PMC themselves recommended the MB2se as they are an easier load.

Im using mine with a Rega Osiris @ 160 w/ch in a 21ft x 15ft room. Because of the common [misplaced] idea that they need a lot of power i did try them with a Bryston 4B3 @ 300 w/ch and found the Osiris was much preferable with better dynamics , control and soundstage. So its not just about power .

Bass is not at all flubby at any level although because they have a good bass output then room problems may come into play.

Although the MB2se go loud with ease you do not have to push them to sound good. In fact they sound excellent at lower volumes , its just that they can play at more realistic levels if so desired.
 
Folkman said:
If he was impressed with the Fact 8 i would think he will be gobsmacked with the MB2se. I found them a massive improvement even over the Fact 12.
When i bought mine i was initially interested in the IB2se but PMC themselves recommended the MB2se as they are an easier load.

Im using mine with a Rega Osiris @ 160 w/ch in a 21ft x 15ft room. Because of the common [misplaced] idea that they need a lot of power i did try them with a Bryston 4B3 @ 300 w/ch and found the Osiris was much preferable with better dynamics , control and soundstage. So its not just about power .

Bass is not at all flubby at any level although because they have a good bass output then room problems may come into play.

Although the MB2se go loud with ease you do not have to push them to sound good. In fact they sound excellent at lower volumes , its just that they can play at more realistic levels if so desired.
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Thank you, sir! It sounds like it will work fine.
 
I never heard pmc BUT let me tell you something:it doesnt matter the watts in audio! tell him to look for amp with strong power supply ! ok?the bigger the better .How you can build amps when you dont know basic things ?
 
some of the amps can open up at very high vol some not,800w in 2ohm or so doesnt guarantee full listening pleasure at very low vol.🤝
 
I'd take the PMC recommended amplifier power with a pinch of salt.
For my particular speakers their recommendation is a massive 500 - 1200W! However I am more than happy, and then some, with their sound connected to amps that likely have a similar power output to Folkman's Osiris mentioned above.
As always the only definitive answer will come when/if your friend gets to actually hear the MB2 + Avondale combination. Preferably in his own room.
 
wainwj said:
As always the only definitive answer will come when/if your friend gets to actually hear the MB2 + Avondale combination. Preferably in his own room.
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Exactly. Home dem is best , or failing that can he take his amp to wherever the speakers are to get an idea.
 
The below thread has some pertinent 'real life' feedback & comments.

These are now £30k speakers, so even a good used deal will still be a chunk of dough. I like an informed punt myself, but I'd balk at buying this level of speaker without trying them first.

My take on the dynamic at all listening levels most often means using high sensitivity, benign load, speakers.

If the MB2SE are favoured, then I'd be looking at a Bryston. 14B3 oerhaps?

www.stereonet.com

PMC mb-2 SE

Asking for a friend.. he has a PMC MB-2 SE..... Which should he buying.. he is interested in the Mark Levinson Mono block.. he using Audio Research 125 tube mono block.. thanks guys and gals
www.stereonet.com www.stereonet.com
 
Folkman said:
... Im using mine with a Rega Osiris @ 160 w/ch in a 21ft x 15ft room. Because of the common [misplaced] idea that they need a lot of power i did try them with a Bryston 4B3 @ 300 w/ch and found the Osiris was much preferable with better dynamics , control and soundstage. So its not just about power .

Bass is not at all flubby at any level although because they have a good bass output then room problems may come into play.

Although the MB2se go loud with ease you do not have to push them to sound good. In fact they sound excellent at lower volumes , its just that they can play at more realistic levels if so desired.
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That all sounds about right to me. I think my comments below are along the same lines.

PMC's specifications suggest the MB2SE can take a lot of power and go much louder than most consumer loudspeakers. But that does not mean they need a lot of power if their location and use does not need them to go that loud.

I have not heard PMC's professional offerings or their consumer equivalents, but I have heard most of the consumer offerings up to the fenestria. The house style I perceive is that their bass loading works well and produces really good output down to the lowest frequency possible. In the larger models I think that may indeed lead to a room being energised to the point where the combination fails to work.

It's just one data point but in one fenestria demonstration I attended I thought they were excellent. In the second I thought they were seriously over-driving the room and sounded unpleasant.

However, once I had auditioned a few other loudspeakers that could reproduce very high audio levels, the advantage compared to of a lot of normal domestic loudspeakers became apparent. I think a lot of people will disagree with my preference and find the latter products absolutely fine. However, I wonder if that may mean they perceive loudspeakers that can go a lot louder without strain as thin sounding and not coming to life until they do go louder.

All the above suggests to me the MB2SE is a product that really needs a proper audition, not so much for power requirement but for listener preference and for room interaction.
 
I have 'umble 25.26 (temporary measure) which is utterly synergistic with my 100 w.p.c. valved mono's. Have looked at those MB models but can't work out why such a high level speaker is (or looks to be) a stand-mount. Baffles me. Also can't get over the Fact 12 being smaller (and narrower) than my .26s as I'd fancied going up the PMC range.
 
Mike Reed said:
Have looked at those MB models but can't work out why such a high level speaker is (or looks to be) a stand-mount. Baffles me.
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That's just the way it is. Obviously the option to convert it into a floor stander is there by using the XBD bass unit.

Actually there may be a benefit from reduced floor coupling. Don't forget both IB3 and BB5 are also stand mounts. So obviously a design decision which may be due to their professional heritage.
 
Apologies for the minor tangent Mike:
Does anyone know what the letters stand for in the model names of the big PMC speakers?
IB2, MB2, BB5.
 
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