Hana ML & SUT modified Croft phono stage.

[Big John]

Last Thursday I went to Malvern driven by my son to see my friend Mark Manwaring-White AKA Malvern Audio Research together with my Croft phono stage built in a Vitale amplifier case that Len Gregory (The Cartridgeman) asked Mr Croft to build me, Len was using a Croft to develop his cartridges I was one of his guinea-pigs, I preferred the Croft to several including an EAR 834p that I tried.

After Len's sad death I have been searching for a replacement for my now elderly Musicmaster cartridge, I listened to a lot including the Hana ML, I spoke to Mark who is a Hana dealer, I pointed out the Croft was moving MI/MM only. (Mark had made it dual 6.3v as well as 12.6v some years ago).

Mark said he could fit a pair of SUT's in the Croft case, which on our arrival he proceeded to do, he fitted a pair of Silver plated copper phono sockets, then a pair of SUT's some wiring into the Croft equaliser circuitry & bingo a MC compatible Croft.

Mark to make it easier & quicker for me set up, with my sausage fingers measured the stylus position of the Musicmaster on my Hadcock 242 Silver arm Mark then fitted the Hana ML cartridge. The arm when fitted at home placed the stylus on the Audio Origami (Seb) protractor that I align to the arm pivot with a small shelf fitting red laser placing the stylus within a gnats toger of perfect.

I have listened to the Hana ML for a few hours now, at 2 grams tracking weight bias set low, it has slowly filled out, bass has deepened sound stage is spreading, treble incise full, but not harsh, I was a initially a little concerned whether my 242 arm would be ok with the 3 gram heavier Hana ML even though it has an XTC counterweight, & it's mass places it in the middle mass of arms...

No such qualms now, I am not going to compare the 2 cartridges after 25 odd years a clean slate. So far the the ML has handled with aplomb everything from Palestrina to Wish You Were Here. Playing at the moment Dave Brubeck greatest hits & I'm not a jazz lover. I am looking forward to the Hana ML running in I have read it can take 40-60 hours.

As for the Croft it still sounds like my Croft & still compatible with higher output cartridges though unlikely to be needed, the Hana ML Croft have transpired to be a brilliant sounding combination.

 

[SONDEKNZ]

Great write-up. Appreciated.

I've thought about a HANA ML myself...

 

[Darren L]

It'll definitely take around 50hrs to run in the ML IME, no worries here when using the Hana on a 242se, works well though I prefer the Hana & Brinkmann combination.

 

[wiresandmore]

Have an ML on my PT Anni with SME IV, super cartridge all round. I’m sure it will only get better for you as it settles in.

 

[Wine Man]

Same TT & arm I have so snap!

Have an ML on my PT Anni with SME IV, super cartridge all round. I’m sure it will only get better for you as it settles in.

Same TT & arm I use so snap! I did upgrade the original PSU to a Midas Plus which made a marked difference, rock solid now. Currently playing a Koetsu Red Sig, I do have an AT ART9 boxed up as a spare. The Hana range does seem to have a top notch reputation.

 

[Miss Ariel]

Wiresandmore I am a ML user as well on a LP12...lovely cart isn't t it.

Seeing you are using a PT anniversary caught my eye as I was round at a mates today and he's just got an Anniversary with SME V.
I had never heard a PT before and I thought his sounded really nice just seemed so neutral and smooth and transparent.
Lovely piece of kit ...Here are a few pictures I took this morning of his one

Sorry to go a bit off topic OP ...your ML will be at its best after 50 hours

IMG_20230819_120330 by sfulxrlv95, on Flickr

IMG_20230819_120351 by sfulxrlv95, on Flickr

IMG_20230819_120351 by sfulxrlv95, on Flickr

 

[wiresandmore]

Looks great in the lighter wood finish!

 

[Miss Ariel]

Yeah I thought that as well especially the power supply matched the plinth perfectly with its wooden casework
Couldn't get over how nice it sounded it was like listening to a CD in terms of lack of vinyl noise and as I say I thought it didn't seem to impare any of its own sound character to the records we listened to and new well.I know SME 's are very popular choices on Pinks I understand why now ...you have a lovely deck there

 

[Big John]

A follow up, Tuesday last I drove the 135 miles alone this time to a concerned Mark at Malvern Audio Research, I had lost the right channel on the Croft phono stage.

Mark took a few minutes working methodically using one of his oscilloscopes to find one of my diy pure Silver wires had fractured on one of the 2 volume pots, he then re made the joints on both volume pots on the front to be safe. I had missed the cause when I looked as I had concentrated on the new wiring at the back of the stage, which were of course perfect, The fault lay out of sight to me behind the front panel, it was my bad as I should & indeed do know better.

After the repair he inserted the Croft in to his expensive reference system in a large room using enormous 6' high horns, a superb 12 wpc valve amp + pre & multi motor turntable fitted with a well run in Hana ML, he played a variety of albums, the Croft was not out of place it sounded like it belonged there

Listening today having set the arm slightly tail down, 2 grams tracking weight plus a few more hours on the Hana ML & the SUT's in the Croft the soundstage is opening out even more, both side to side & fore & aft with height beginning to emerge , the bass is sounding deeper, mid range & treble sounding sweeter & more natural. The Musicmaster excelled at digging out information, I am getting used to the fuller bass & different tonal balance of the Hana ML. Svetlanov conducting Boradin's In the Steppes of Central Asia magical, Lou Reed Walk on the Wild Side, Herbie Flowers slightly deeper double bass & overlaid electric bass threading through the whole track. Floyd intro to Wish you Were Here equally quiet background as the Musicmaster however when Mick Mason's drums come in a lot more power...

In my earlier post I forgot to acknowledge the part played by my modified Transcriptors/Michell Hydraulic Reference turntable & the pivotal role (pun) of the Hadcock 242 Silver Plus with XTC counterweight it has always been a very good arm Len Gregory recommended/sold it to me, Len had updated the earlier versions of the Hadcock arms for George Hadcock changing the head off set angle & the damped stainless steel arm tube.

Replacing the flexible counterweight stub on the early 242 arm with a firmly mounted rigid one was my idea, incorporated in later arms. it's familiarity as with the Croft is helping to ease my transition from 25 years of Cartridgeman Moving Iron Musicmaker's to the later Musicmaster sound to the current Hana ML moving coil so far I am amazed just how good this Hydraulic Reference, Hana, Hadcock & Croft combination is.

 

[slavedata]

About 6 months ago I upgraded from a Hana SL to a Hana ML I was originally using the SL with Partridge 6:1 SUTs driving a Guy Sargeant valve phono stage. The SUTs weren't a great match with the ML so I went back to the guy I bought them from and he supplied a pair of 12:1 Partridges.I have experimented with loading and settled for 47K across the output of the SUTs. Result as detailed above a punchy full and spacious sound with good attack lots of air and space. A truly excellent cartridge. My arm is a 12" wooden Cocobolo Apparition from a guy in New Zealand, deck is aThorens 124 II.

 

[Big John]

I have adjusted the Hana ML tail down on the the Hadcock 242 Silver plus, poor camera phone picture top of the H ML is close as possible to parallel to the record, stylus as near as 92 degrees as I can get using my BUM protractor.
Sounds great...

 

[Rockmeister]

It does improve a lot after about 20 hours of play, then again after maybe double that, then settles.

 

[sktn77a]

Matching a LOMC cartridge to a passive SUT is MUCH more critical than matching it to an active phono stage. The internal impedance of the ML is 7-8 ohms. If you match it with an transformer with too low an impedance you will get a dull, muffled sound. If you match it with a transformer with too high an impedance, you'll get a bright, thin sound.

 

[Big John]

Matching a LOMC cartridge to a passive SUT is MUCH more critical than matching it to an active phono stage. The internal impedance of the ML is 7-8 ohms. If you match it with an transformer with too low an impedance you will get a dull, muffled sound. If you match it with a transformer with too high an impedance, you'll get a bright, thin sound.

Keith I agree with your assessment thankfully I have neither problem, Mark used the same 10-1 SUT's that he uses himself with his own Hana ML & put's in to his Audio Detail detail Moving Coil use phono stages' & preamps, he also uses the same SUT's with a Hana Umami Red at shows all of which I have heard the Hana range is exceptional, when inserted in his system the croft was full bodied with sweet clear mid's & treble. Mark has worked on the Croft several times so was well placed to gauge their use in the Croft, Marks additions are working flawlessly with the Croft equalisation circuit's.

Surprisingly in my lounge which seems to suit my One Thing Audio Quad 57's on OTA Rupert stands with BatPure super tweeters in horns, I prefered the slightly warmer sound here. Using Len Gregory's pure silver phono lead's from Hana ML to the Croft the rest are connected via my pure silver copies of Lens cables into a Ming da MC7R that Mark has converted it to fully DC heaters, reduced the negative feedback of by 50% replaced pertinent capacitors & resistors, likewise my Rogue Atlas Magnum power amp in to which mark fitted Mills 1% resistors & Aldyn Reference output caps for the 4 KT120's. Whether building new valve equipment or repairing or designing for others, my friend Mark is good at what he does.

 

[Avon]

George Hadcock changing the [...] damped stainless steel arm tube.

Sorry for being off topic John, but how is the GH242 arm damped? Mine has some transparent tubing, on the inside of the arm at the cartridge end, but it only goes in by about an inch or so. Does that count as damping?

 

[Big John]

Sorry for being off topic John, but how is the GH242 arm damped? Mine has some transparent tubing, on the inside of the arm at the cartridge end, but it only goes in by about an inch or so. Does that count as damping?

20 years ago Len said that my arm tube was on one occasion, I also remember him mentioning two stainless steel tubes one cooled the other warmed then cooled one inserted in to the warm one creating an interference fit. sorry I can't be more specific.

 

[Avon]

Thanks John. I didn't notice my 2006 GH242 having concentric arm tubes. I may use a USB camera to check it later. It's not something I've ever even thought about. Nice idea!

 

[pure sound]

In my experience, while the SL does want to see a higher impedance meaning 1:10 sut's are a good match, the ML is happier into a lower impedance so 1:15 or 1:20 ratio transformers are a better bet. ymmv.

 

[Big John]

In my experience, while the SL does want to see a higher impedance meaning 1:10 sut's are a good match, the ML is happier into a lower impedance so 1:15 or 1:20 ratio transformers are a better bet. ymmv.

pure-sound I can't argue with your comments I lack your knowledge & experience having used Len's cartridges & Isolator exclusively for 25+ years, your observations may well be extremely relevant. I wonder if the complaints of 20 years ago re the high gain of a Croft phono stage influenced Mark's choice of SUT, though mark had addressed that with my Croft by fitting variable input sensitivity to my MC7R preamp.

I do know Mark as Malvern Audio Research is a Hana Reseller whatever that means? & works with the importers.

 

[Avon]

the ML is happier into a lower impedance

Please excuse my ignorance, as I've never used a SUT, but can you not load the cartridge with a resistor?