Grammar query: that versus which
- Thread starter kasperhauser
- Start date
Mathematics is my best subject. Unless it's Modern Languages that is my best subject. Or maybe it's Politics. It's certainly not Economics.
Cav
pfm Member
Neither statement was correct in my case - according to my maths teacher...
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
Is it. I don't think I have ever seen the word 'mathematic'. It seems to me it's like 'physics', 'economics', 'politics', a word which ends in an -s, denoting perhaps that it is the name of a multidisciplinary activity rather than a single one, but not really a plural in the usual sense?
Given my comment above, that there is no word 'mathematic', are you sure?
Maths is, obviously, from the above.
Martyn Miles
pfm Member
England & America.
Two nations divided by a common language.
Two nations divided by a common language.
Tony L
Administrator
‘Maths’ sounds right to me, I always understood it as a contraction of ‘mathematics’. ‘Mathematic’ sounds as wrong as ‘math’.
PS I’m the wrong person to ask here. I view myself as entirely self-taught in everything, I got nothing from school. I hated every second and went as little as possible. That was a place I did not fit.
PS I’m the wrong person to ask here. I view myself as entirely self-taught in everything, I got nothing from school. I hated every second and went as little as possible. That was a place I did not fit.
Seeker_UK
Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans
There is, but it is an adjective as it is the shortened from of "mathematical".
It is also used as a description for the car, Greased Lightning, in the song of the same name.
laughingboy
pfm Member
I've got a copy of the second edition (1965) of Fowler's Modern English Usage (wiki). Here is what it says about that/which:
It then admits that it is tempting to try to influence language usage for the better and goes on to say:
In summary, the defining/non-defining rule has no tradition of being taught in Britain. Some highly respected British grammarians like it, but - let's be realistic - who's listening?
"What grammarians say should be has perhaps less influence on what shall be than even the more modest of them realise; usage evolves little disturbed by their likes and dislikes."
It then admits that it is tempting to try to influence language usage for the better and goes on to say:
"The two kinds of relative clause, to one of which that and to the other of which which is appropriate, are the defining and the non-defining; and if writers would agree to regard that as the defining relative pronoun and which as the non-defining relative pronoun, there would be much gain both in lucidity and in ease. Some there are who follow this principle now; but it would be idle to pretend that it is the practice either of most or of the best writers."
In summary, the defining/non-defining rule has no tradition of being taught in Britain. Some highly respected British grammarians like it, but - let's be realistic - who's listening?
Joe P
Memory Alpha incarnate | mod; Shatner number = 2
In Canada you study math or mathematics, but not maths.
Word use and grammar convention is a hodgepodge here. We follow the convention in the UK for some words (e.g., colour, not color) and US convention for other words (e.g., summarize, not summarise).
It’s almost as though we’re a former British colony beside a cultural behemoth, eh.
Joe
Word use and grammar convention is a hodgepodge here. We follow the convention in the UK for some words (e.g., colour, not color) and US convention for other words (e.g., summarize, not summarise).
It’s almost as though we’re a former British colony beside a cultural behemoth, eh.
Joe
Beobloke
pfm Member
As another grammar Nazi, I have no problem with the American pronunciation of "aluminum" as, at least they are pronouncing it how they spell it. They just spell it wrongly!
That said, I can't help feeling that they get "lieutenant" right and we get it spectacularly wrong. Where the hell does the 'f' come from?! If I work a weekend day and am awarded a special day off as a result I'm having a day off in lieu, not a day off in "leff".
That said, I can't help feeling that they get "lieutenant" right and we get it spectacularly wrong. Where the hell does the 'f' come from?! If I work a weekend day and am awarded a special day off as a result I'm having a day off in lieu, not a day off in "leff".
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Martyn Miles
pfm Member
My English teacher was revelation.
Taught me the joy of English grammar.
Along with the correct us of the apostrophe.
I only have to read some posts on PFM to see the random apostrophe is alive and well.
Martyn Miles
pfm Member
American English has a lot of noisy supporters.
A friend of mine went on lecture tour of the USA, and he would open with
“I do like way you Americans spell colour.
They would smile.
Then he’d say, “Logical, but wrong.”
They did get a little noisy then.
When I worked in the USA fir a year I would have great fun winding the locals up by picking them up on their spelling and grammar and then letting them argue the point before something similar to the following exchange took place:
Me: OK, OK, I hear all that but what language is it you speak in the USA?
US dude: Er... English?
Me: And I am from which country?
US dude: England?
Me: Yes and you are from which country?
US dude: The United States of America
Me: So, which of us is more likely to be able to define the nuances of the English language then?
US dude: Oh man!
Generally they took it well
Me: OK, OK, I hear all that but what language is it you speak in the USA?
US dude: Er... English?
Me: And I am from which country?
US dude: England?
Me: Yes and you are from which country?
US dude: The United States of America
Me: So, which of us is more likely to be able to define the nuances of the English language then?
US dude: Oh man!
Generally they took it well
alive and well? Just saying
Martyn Miles
pfm Member
Thank you.
Of course, alive and well.
My English teacher would have been horrified.
Now corrected.
Of course, alive and well.
My English teacher would have been horrified.
Now corrected.
I studied Biochemistries. Biochemistries students and organic chemistries students are really clever, we can count to 4 and everything.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
I'd have thought you needed a lot more than 4 for some of those biochemical molecule things. You live and learn.
At least you didn't do geographies or sociologies. They barely get past dressing themselves, I hear.
At least you didn't do geographies or sociologies. They barely get past dressing themselves, I hear.
I don't get the angst. It's a variant, both variants are correct. We have had -ise and -ize here, both are correct, the z variant is more common in the USA and the s variant in the UK, but you can use either, in the UK at least. In my mind it's no different from pronunciation differences or even regional words such as "bairns" which is in common use in the N of England and Scotland but never heard in the South. or the Scottish "outwith" which I love and have adopted as part of my vocabulary (Standard English, Northern variant).