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Goldring Elite - cartridge sibilance

Operajulian

Operajulian

Julian
Hi there Fishers

My of my neighbours asked me over for a listen to his new $13,000 system and much to our surprise there was I think distortion that could be described as sibilance ( definitely not rumble, hum or feedback ).

His system is:-

Project 9 Classic Carbon TT - on isolation points.
Goldring Elite cartridge ( new ) - Professionally set up by dealer
Tom Evans Phono amp - set at 112 ohm ( nearest to the 100ohm suggested by Goldring)
Jeff Rowland Capri Preamp and Amp
Focal Chorus bookshelf speakers

BTW It all sound fantastic with a CD !

His listening room is medium sized - professionally designed and super spotless. His record collection is immaculately kept and cleaned with a machine. So its not old and worn records, a dirty stylus and the usual suspects.

The distortion is in the mid to high range frequencies. We moved the speakers and listened through headphones so we are sure that it is a turntable/cartridge thing.

We tried a few newly new long playing and 7" singles and the same effect occurs. Both in the first tracks and the ones towards the centre.

To the best of my ability I have checked that the tracking weight is correct (1.7g) along with tracking, azimuth etc etc.

I know that setting up such a system is often a matter of further and further refinement. Any ideas ?

Much appreciated,
Julian
( Minus ten or more in Toronto )
 
hi could try 1.9g also I would get my protractor out,had the eroica and it sounded good to me,regards charlie
 
Yup I'd DEF push the tracking weight up to 1.9g.
Next, is the sibilance on the L channel only? Or the R only? Because if it is, it may well be bias that's the problem. Bias (anti skate adjustment) is best set by ear anyway. If it's Right channel only (or most) then INCREASE the anti skate force, if L then decrease it. If its central increase the tracking weight to see it that eliminates it (the cart is good for 2.0g, and very often the max figure or v close sounds most secure anyway). If none of that works, return to dealer with the record that sounds worst and ask for a sort out.
 
Thanks for the suggestions. We shall try those and get back in touch with the dealer ( though these have not always been so helpful to date ).

One of the not brilliant LP's is Neil Young's harvest Moon - a canadian classic - so he is supposed to sound good.
Take care Julian
 
Unfortunately every cartridge I had ever owned ( including 2 examples of an Ortofon 2M black) suffered from sibilance until I hit on AT’s microline range. I also tried two examples of a Shure 97xe and was really disappointed with the sibilance aspect and I tried them out in 3 different arms. However recent experiences with a Shure V15V and a Lyra have been excellent but this is probably down to a stylus profile similar to AT’s microline. I may well be wrong but I suspect the sibilance you are experiencing is down to the stylus profile and no matter of fiddling around with it will cure the problem. However, although I have quite a lot of experience with cartridges, I’m no expert and I’d be more than happy to be proved wrong. Re the 2M black I know that some will say it was simply down to setting up but I really tried everything (and also in 3 different arms) and I was still unable to get rid of sibilance - fortunately the arrival of an AT 440mla changed everything.
 
alanchamberlain said:
Unfortunately every cartridge I had ever owned ( including 2 examples of an Ortofon 2M black) suffered from sibilance until I hit on AT’s microline range. I also tried two examples of a Shure 97xe and was really disappointed with the sibilance aspect and I tried them out in 3 different arms. However recent experiences with a Shure V15V and a Lyra have been excellent but this is probably down to a stylus profile similar to AT’s microline. I may well be wrong but I suspect the sibilance you are experiencing is down to the stylus profile and no matter of fiddling around with it will cure the problem. However, although I have quite a lot of experience with cartridges, I’m no expert and I’d be more than happy to be proved wrong. Re the 2M black I know that some will say it was simply down to setting up but I really tried everything (and also in 3 different arms) and I was still unable to get rid of sibilance - fortunately the arrival of an AT 440mla changed everything.
Click to expand...

My experience follows yours in much the same way, since the inclusion of a 440MLA I’ve never been happier or had the dreaded sibilance problem.
 
Doesn't explain the problem with the other records, but if it's the recent Neil Young Harvest Moon reissue then I have heard complaints about distortion on the odd track or two with some copies.
 
Further follow up to the Goldring adventure.

So the dealer gave up and offered to take back the cartridge at purchase price. One unhappy friend as despite spending loads still no working turntable.
Interesting side of the story from the dealer who shall be nameless and personally I think could have done better. Basically staff should talk the truth to the owner - thats all I will say.

On to making some kind of solution.......

So we set up a Ortofon 2M Bronze cartridge instead. Sadly this was not great either - despite changing the phono head amp switches to suit. Still some sibilance and in addition what I would call mains freq hum at higher volumes. So we checked all the connections, metered stuff all the usual suspects and no joy.

Went off to my storage locker and dug out an old Revolver/Linn Basik/AT OC9 combination and hooked that up.
Simple TT - quite nice cartridge I thought.

OH MY - started to play the Neil Young - great sound in the circumstances of the recording. Onto B52's Rock Lobster - smashing. Bit of Muddy Waters - great. Finished with a dash of Sharon Jones. All great listening as far as the neighbour goes. So I left him with the TT to try out. Should I overcome my hoarding instincts and sell him the old Revolver ?

Should we try the AT OC9 on the Pro-ject TT ? Might that work ?
Thoughts most welcome.

Julian
 
so how did you get the tonearm bearings checked out (since you've proved the cartridges were not to blame), and did you mess about with the bias as suggested....love to know what happened there.
 
A while ago a customer wanted to swap the cartridge on his Project turntable (Project 9CC tonearm) due to sibilance. When I checked the tonearm bearings they had a lot (and I mean a lot) of play!!! I used the Project provided tool to adjust the bearings (with much care), and lo and behold sibilance was gone.
 
Bit late to the party here, but a dealer who sets up a new cart. to play at 0.3 g less than recommended max. doesn't know his onions, as Rockmeister infers below.

Sibilance, as I'm sure has been mentioned, can be ameliorated by lowering the VTA a bit and possibly by better matching to the ph/stage loadings, though 100 ohms is the normal 'low' position. Notwithstanding this, a new cart. is not going to perform to its best ability out of the box and can appear treble oriented until run in. I wonder if that dealer used any form of alignment geometry to set it up as on any deck, a cart. (esp. one with line contact etc.stylus) still needs the cart. to be in the right place !

On the info. above, I'd go with (a) lack of run-in, and (b) poor set-up every time.


Rockmeister said:
Yup I'd DEF push the tracking weight up to 1.9g.
Click to expand...
 
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