Beobloke
pfm Member
Yes, I I am
Germany sees sense and legalises cannabis
- Thread starter Finnegan
- Start date
Gingerbeard
Ayup Me Duck
kensalriser
pfm Member
Cannabis is not good for your health and it is very bad for your health if you smoke it. There are plenty of good reasons to decriminalise, however.
Cheese
Bitter lover
I used to be a regular smoker, in hindsight I can assure everyone here that its long term effects can be devastating. The problem is not mainly cannabis itself, the problem is that you are addicted to something (most pot smokers are), and as always you are the last one to realise it. I only managed to get rid of it by quitting smoking altogether, 25 years ago, as well as sharing my life with better partners.
What bothers me about legalisation is that it may contribute to a general trivialisation of cannabis. If criminalisation helps say 10% of potential smokers in staying away from the stuff, then that’s a fair number of youngsters bound to lead a better life. Cannabis remains a dangerous drug.
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There's a confounding effect in that a significant number of users use cannabis to self-medicate existing mental issues: the nature of the drug's effects make it particularly attractive for those suffering from depression.
I knew lots of people who said their use of cannabis had no effect on them, but I also heard the same lies from alcoholics. If it really didn't have any effect, they wouldn't have used it so heavily. (I have tried it, but never "used" it)
But a minority of abusers shouldn't prevent responsible use if it's possible. I'm torn by the legalisation argument. In favour, it's not a particularly dangerous drug (although the growers' industry seems to be doing its best to make it so with ever stronger strains). Against, it's still smoking, a practice that's known to cause cancer, plus I've seen people get hooked on the tobacco they used to cut their weed: Actually, I'd happily accept cannabis if we could completely eliminate tobacco... and synthetic nicotine.
Thing is, legalisation won't entirely remove the illicit trade.. Any legal supply chain will be taxed, so the drug dealers will still be able to undercut the legal market, and weed is often used as a loss-leader by some organisations to pitch more addictive and expensive product. No, that's not the "gateway" argument, I'm not talking about a pull factor from the user, but rather a push factor from the sellers.
I knew lots of people who said their use of cannabis had no effect on them, but I also heard the same lies from alcoholics. If it really didn't have any effect, they wouldn't have used it so heavily. (I have tried it, but never "used" it)
But a minority of abusers shouldn't prevent responsible use if it's possible. I'm torn by the legalisation argument. In favour, it's not a particularly dangerous drug (although the growers' industry seems to be doing its best to make it so with ever stronger strains). Against, it's still smoking, a practice that's known to cause cancer, plus I've seen people get hooked on the tobacco they used to cut their weed: Actually, I'd happily accept cannabis if we could completely eliminate tobacco... and synthetic nicotine.
Thing is, legalisation won't entirely remove the illicit trade.. Any legal supply chain will be taxed, so the drug dealers will still be able to undercut the legal market, and weed is often used as a loss-leader by some organisations to pitch more addictive and expensive product. No, that's not the "gateway" argument, I'm not talking about a pull factor from the user, but rather a push factor from the sellers.
Andrew C!
Been around a while....
Drug drive legislation is fit for purpose. The tech is available to evidence and support prosecution. The correctly trained police, however, are few and far between in correctly evidencing and investigating this type of offence.
Cannabis affects your ability to do divided attention tasks I.e. driving. As does alcohol, and also plenty of proscribed medications. Etc etc
Cannabis affects your ability to do divided attention tasks I.e. driving. As does alcohol, and also plenty of proscribed medications. Etc etc
Finnegan
I like a bit of a cavort
Most adults use cannabis recreationally without significant adverse effects to their health. In a thirty year career in mental health services, and close working with young adults who used cannabis, I did not encounter any conclusive evidence that cannabis causes psychosis. However, emerging evidence would seem to support the hypothesis that links cannabis with psychosis in a small cohort; in the same manner that a minority of people cannot tolerate gluten, or whose pancreas no longer adequately regulates blood glucose levels. And of course, those who smoke cannabis, either mixed with tobacco or through a pipe, run the same risk of cancer and lung damage as cigarette smokers.
What has been established beyond question is that there is a correlation between cannabis use and psychosis, although this is exceptionally complex. Often, those cannabis users who present with psychosis are poly drug users; their cannabis use is concomitant with the use of of cocaine, ecstasy, LSD, magic mushrooms, Novel Psychedelic Substances (legal highs), alcohol etc. Additionally, there is frequent co-morbidity in the cohort of cannabis users who present with psychosis, i.e. there may have been an underlying, pre-existing health condition, developmental disability, etc.
What has been largely disproven is that cannabis acts as a ‘gateway drug’ in the sense that users begin with a comparatively benign substance like cannabis, but go on to use harder drugs in search of a greater ‘kick.’ The effects of cannabis are highly specific. Users report that it enhances mood and sensory perception, and that music sounds more exciting and vital, visual senses are enhanced etc. This is a million miles away from the effects of, for example heroin, that blunts the emotions.
Neither is it true that street level sellers introduce young persons to cannabis to get them ‘hooked’ before encouraging them to try ‘harder’ drugs. It is true that most alcoholics who now down a bottle or two of vodka per day started with beer, but that is associated with the individual emotional and psychological profile of the addict. When have you ever gone into a off-licence to buy a bottle of wine where the salesperson tries to push you gin instead, because it has a greater ‘kick’? Most street level cannabis dealers are smokers themselves, and deal to friends. What is true though, is that the illegal status of cannabis makes it more likely that those same youngsters come into contact with other, harder drugs, due to the illicit methods and venues involved in obtaining cannabis.
The other main objection to legalisation is that it will increase the availability of cannabis and encourage more people to begin using, increasing the burden placed on the police, NHS, and other agencies. The flaw in this argument is that those burdens already exist. The most cursory visit to any high school in the country, any football ground, or park or recreation ground, will confirm that cannabis use amongst young persons is already at a significant level.
The experience of Portugal, where the experiment of legalising drugs has gone further than any other European state, demonstrates that drug use does not increase following legalisation. On the contrary, an open, regulated and comparatively safe trade in drugs leads to fewer deaths per capita.
Full legalisation will not entirely eliminate the illicit trade. Contraband tobacco is still smuggled into the U.K. despite being entirely legal. But it does go a very significant way to reducing all round risk, eliminates a potential criminal record and addresses drug use as it should, and as it needs, to be addressed- as a health and social rather than a criminal justice issue.
I include a link on the Portuguese model, and a link from the Royal College of Psychiatrists: you will note the the RCPsych link is careful to use language like “might,” “risk” and ”associated” rather than “proven” and ”causes.” There are also a number of useful articles published by The Lancet.
www.rcpsych.ac.uk
transformdrugs.org
What has been established beyond question is that there is a correlation between cannabis use and psychosis, although this is exceptionally complex. Often, those cannabis users who present with psychosis are poly drug users; their cannabis use is concomitant with the use of of cocaine, ecstasy, LSD, magic mushrooms, Novel Psychedelic Substances (legal highs), alcohol etc. Additionally, there is frequent co-morbidity in the cohort of cannabis users who present with psychosis, i.e. there may have been an underlying, pre-existing health condition, developmental disability, etc.
What has been largely disproven is that cannabis acts as a ‘gateway drug’ in the sense that users begin with a comparatively benign substance like cannabis, but go on to use harder drugs in search of a greater ‘kick.’ The effects of cannabis are highly specific. Users report that it enhances mood and sensory perception, and that music sounds more exciting and vital, visual senses are enhanced etc. This is a million miles away from the effects of, for example heroin, that blunts the emotions.
Neither is it true that street level sellers introduce young persons to cannabis to get them ‘hooked’ before encouraging them to try ‘harder’ drugs. It is true that most alcoholics who now down a bottle or two of vodka per day started with beer, but that is associated with the individual emotional and psychological profile of the addict. When have you ever gone into a off-licence to buy a bottle of wine where the salesperson tries to push you gin instead, because it has a greater ‘kick’? Most street level cannabis dealers are smokers themselves, and deal to friends. What is true though, is that the illegal status of cannabis makes it more likely that those same youngsters come into contact with other, harder drugs, due to the illicit methods and venues involved in obtaining cannabis.
The other main objection to legalisation is that it will increase the availability of cannabis and encourage more people to begin using, increasing the burden placed on the police, NHS, and other agencies. The flaw in this argument is that those burdens already exist. The most cursory visit to any high school in the country, any football ground, or park or recreation ground, will confirm that cannabis use amongst young persons is already at a significant level.
The experience of Portugal, where the experiment of legalising drugs has gone further than any other European state, demonstrates that drug use does not increase following legalisation. On the contrary, an open, regulated and comparatively safe trade in drugs leads to fewer deaths per capita.
Full legalisation will not entirely eliminate the illicit trade. Contraband tobacco is still smuggled into the U.K. despite being entirely legal. But it does go a very significant way to reducing all round risk, eliminates a potential criminal record and addresses drug use as it should, and as it needs, to be addressed- as a health and social rather than a criminal justice issue.
I include a link on the Portuguese model, and a link from the Royal College of Psychiatrists: you will note the the RCPsych link is careful to use language like “might,” “risk” and ”associated” rather than “proven” and ”causes.” There are also a number of useful articles published by The Lancet.
Cannabis and mental health - for young people | Royal College of Psychiatrists
Information for young people about cannabis and how it might affect your mental health.
Drug decriminalisation in Portugal: setting the record straight. | Transform
transformdrugs.org
Rockmeister
pfm Member
^excellent post. People are flawed and damaged long before they start to drink or experiment with drugs. All types of drug, prescribed, legal and illegal are taken by all kinds of people. In general, Cannabis is not addictive and will not, when taken by any well balanced person, lead to further things and certainly not, to any crime other than the act of buying it illegally in the first place.
Rockmeister
pfm Member
11am? Nah, still about 10 30 ish
richardg
Admonishtrator
He definitely did not say that or anything close to it.
richardg
Admonishtrator
The thing is you know what he means, even if he did miss the words recreational / illegal. Not sure a reproach is called for.
Darren L
Egalitarian
It also should be noted that smoking is not the only way to consume Cannabis, edibles have become increasingly popular in the decriminalised or legalised countries or states, cookies, fudge and gummies.
I personally think decriminalisation or legalisation is the way forward, a win win situation as the cultivation and dispensing would create employment and remove millions of income from criminal organisations.
I personally think decriminalisation or legalisation is the way forward, a win win situation as the cultivation and dispensing would create employment and remove millions of income from criminal organisations.
Cav
pfm Member
I would not smoke cannabis, but I would be tempted by a vape...
@Finnegan how many drug dealers do you know? What I said was common practice where I grew up.
Legalisation would require much stricter contol of dosage. We require brewers to state how much alcohol is in their product. Weed is a complete wild west right now, and that can't continue in a legalised market.
Legalisation would require much stricter contol of dosage. We require brewers to state how much alcohol is in their product. Weed is a complete wild west right now, and that can't continue in a legalised market.
Bob McC
Living the life of Riley
Cretinous position isnt it?
Cav
pfm Member
That would be one of the benefits for the consumer - producers would have to specify potency in some way - %THC per gram or similar.
@Cav, yes, and it's needed. I know a couple of people who use weed recreationally, but they've had bad experiences sharing other people's stuff when it turns out to be far stronger than they wanted, and there is a kind of cynical arms-race among growers to see who can breed the highest amount of THC into their crop.
