a.palfreyman
pfm Member
Anyone noticed how sellers of 401s are now asking and in some cases getting "restored condition" money for these which need some time / money spending on them?
AP
AP
Gale 401s -- failed project resurrected...
- Thread starter Mr Tibbs
- Start date
This thread probably deserves a bit of an update ....
Having recently moved the whole system into the 'spare room' ... done on a whim really... I've been amazed at how much better the music is in this smaller space (from a 5.5 x 4.5m room to 3 x 4m room). I was hoping the move would give me a better environment for lower SPL late night listening. It does, but the anticipated compromise on ability to do the big-scale wall-of-sound thing the Gales are so brilliant at has proved unfounded. In fact I reckon they've never sounded better.
Most of the reason has to do with locating them near (but not quite in) the room corners. This is where they need to be to work as intended, but their exact location becomes more critical compared to using just rear wall bass reinforcement. Get corner placement wrong and the results are decidedly average. Get it right and everything just snaps into place; bass depth, clarity and timing are a delight to hear. The mid and treble controls need a little tweaking up to counteract the extra bass power but it's a quick and simple procedure to dial in a balanced result.
Another upside is that considerably less power is now needed to get 'realistic' loudness when not in late-night mode and the music choice benefits from it. The 'Mojo-modded' 250 sounds very good, but I reckoned it was time to try my old favourite NAP110 once more. It took about 15 seconds to realise the little 110 simply smoked the 250 in every way. No contest at all, the baby Naim is achingly lovely in this room/system and here it will stay. It can go loud too, VERY loud and still it stays fully composed and in control. Location location location .... get that right and the amp choice becomes wider than you'd expect given the amp-killing reputation of 401s. Oh, I should mention ... tried the workshop NAIT 3 for a night; It 'worked' in that it produced a lively enough sound, but bass notes became harder to follow and just didn't have the grin-factor of the 110 or 250.
Mr Tibbs
Having recently moved the whole system into the 'spare room' ... done on a whim really... I've been amazed at how much better the music is in this smaller space (from a 5.5 x 4.5m room to 3 x 4m room). I was hoping the move would give me a better environment for lower SPL late night listening. It does, but the anticipated compromise on ability to do the big-scale wall-of-sound thing the Gales are so brilliant at has proved unfounded. In fact I reckon they've never sounded better.
Most of the reason has to do with locating them near (but not quite in) the room corners. This is where they need to be to work as intended, but their exact location becomes more critical compared to using just rear wall bass reinforcement. Get corner placement wrong and the results are decidedly average. Get it right and everything just snaps into place; bass depth, clarity and timing are a delight to hear. The mid and treble controls need a little tweaking up to counteract the extra bass power but it's a quick and simple procedure to dial in a balanced result.
Another upside is that considerably less power is now needed to get 'realistic' loudness when not in late-night mode and the music choice benefits from it. The 'Mojo-modded' 250 sounds very good, but I reckoned it was time to try my old favourite NAP110 once more. It took about 15 seconds to realise the little 110 simply smoked the 250 in every way. No contest at all, the baby Naim is achingly lovely in this room/system and here it will stay. It can go loud too, VERY loud and still it stays fully composed and in control. Location location location .... get that right and the amp choice becomes wider than you'd expect given the amp-killing reputation of 401s. Oh, I should mention ... tried the workshop NAIT 3 for a night; It 'worked' in that it produced a lively enough sound, but bass notes became harder to follow and just didn't have the grin-factor of the 110 or 250.
Mr Tibbs
JensenHealey
pfm Member
Here are mine..... long story, but fully restored by David Smith. I love it.
JensenHealey
pfm Member
Thorens TD145 - all original, owned by me from new in 1978 with my first 'proper' job pay. Currently sporting a V15 VMR cartridge
Recent Roksan K2 BT to drive the Gales. The Bluetooth gets used by my teenage girls to stream from their phones whilst they do school work - the other end of the room is an office.
Cambridge Audio DAC Magic 100 to bring TV sound into the system and anything else. Also can connect up laptop. Speaker cables are QED Silver Anniversary XT. Other cables a mish mash.
Marantz universal player. Can also drag music off a USB disc on the network. Bit clunky that.
On the left is a broken Pink Triangle LPT (power supply - what a surprise) and a largely unused cassette player from Sony
Recent Roksan K2 BT to drive the Gales. The Bluetooth gets used by my teenage girls to stream from their phones whilst they do school work - the other end of the room is an office.
Cambridge Audio DAC Magic 100 to bring TV sound into the system and anything else. Also can connect up laptop. Speaker cables are QED Silver Anniversary XT. Other cables a mish mash.
Marantz universal player. Can also drag music off a USB disc on the network. Bit clunky that.
On the left is a broken Pink Triangle LPT (power supply - what a surprise) and a largely unused cassette player from Sony
Crikey ... it's TEN years since this thread began. High time for a little update with a nice and easy performance tweak that has me wishing I'd not been so attached to the mantra of solidly coupling, rather than decoupling loudspeakers from their stands and floor. Not that I'm suggesting the following idea will work for other 'speakers but it's easy and cheap to experiment with and the results are surprising. The idea is simply to decouple the speaker from its stand by introducing a compliant material between the two. I started out by trying 4 thin rubber pads cut from an old inner tube. The results were positive in that (among other things) it was easier to hear stuff in the background previously only hinted at. I doubled up on the pads and noticed a small further improvement, then left well alone for a few months, after which the pads came out to be replaced by heavy duty twin-wall 6mm thick cardboard sheet. This made a more profound difference compared to the rubber pads, but with the exact same effect increasing clarity through the range. Spurred on by this I got hold of some 6mm thick polyethylene sheet (cheap gym mat) and cut 2 pieces per speaker, giving a 12mm PE interface between speaker and stand. Again the results are very positive, the music and vocals being easier to hear and follow. Given the 401s were already very good in that respect, it's surprising and rewarding to hear they can deliver even more with this simple tweak.
Mr Tibbs
Mr Tibbs
@Mr. Tibbs, are you still using the NAP 250 with the Gales?
I have an Aragon 4004 driving mine and it sounds great, but I'm concerned that it is getting quite long in the tooth and a little flakey so have been contemplating whether I should be looking for a suitable replacement.
Be pleased to hear your thoughts regarding stability of the Naim amps with the Gales.
Jim
I have an Aragon 4004 driving mine and it sounds great, but I'm concerned that it is getting quite long in the tooth and a little flakey so have been contemplating whether I should be looking for a suitable replacement.
Be pleased to hear your thoughts regarding stability of the Naim amps with the Gales.
Jim
Tony L
Administrator
There is someone making perfect reproductions of the original chrome Gale stands now (link). My Gale loving friend has just had his 401s refurbished (refoamed etc) and bought the stands and they’ve never sounded better to my ears. Great to see this classic speaker made a viable option for folk who don’t DIY.
Snap! It's been a few years now since mine were done but for those of us who don't have Mr. Tibbs skill in these things, Dave Smith (per Tony's link) has been doing this for a long time and is very good at it. He doesn't mess with anything else commercially.
He did point out to me that the 'new' stands are identical except that they are made from a single piece of tube. 70's pipe bending technology presumably didn't allow that or I'm sure Ira Gale would have done the same.
Jim
Since I've moved the system into a smaller room (approx 16 sqm) I'm driving them with my trusty NAP110 as it has proved to be well up to the job (provided the volume is kept at sensible rather than lunatic levels). I still have the 250, but even with the 'Mojo Mod' it can't quite match the little 110 for the sheer get-up-and-go kind of dynamics the 102/110 combo really shines at. The 250 is a better sonic match for 72 preamp IMO, so If you prefer the 72 then the chances are you'd be happier matching it with the 250 than the 110.
None of Naim's chrome bumper or olive amps will have any stability issues driving 401s, but it's wise to use at least 5M per side of their A5 cable just to be sure. The 250 can overheat when pushed hard into them, but that's down to the onboard reg's contributing to the heat generation rather than any stability issue with the amp. It can easily be kept cool by using a computer fan run at low voltage and located in a dummy shelf under the amp/reg region. A pair of 135s would solve the cooling issue nicely and would likely sound very good too.
Tony, I guess I owe my 401s a set of those stands by now. Since finding out the 401s definitely prefer to be 'floating' rather than fixed to the floor, I'm now more confident the 'correct' tubular stands will work very well. One question though - can you ask him to measure the height of the stands as it might be an issue for me if they are much shorter than my tripods. Thanks!
Mr Tibbs
Thanks to Tony and Jim for the measurements. The tripods are 580mm so the 'proper' stands are a little bit lower but the LH speaker should still be clear of the sofa in the meantime (redecoration and some new furniture long overdue for the listening room!). The reproduction stands somehow look a bit chunkier, with larger diameter tubing than the originals perhaps? Anyway, watch this space ...
Mr Tibbs
Mr Tibbs
Tony, to echo your comment about your friend's Gales, quite simply I've never heard mine sounding better. My concerns about them possibly being more 'for show' than performance have thankfully (and surprisingly, to be honest) been unfounded! The photos don't really do them justice - that are indeed beautifully made. Thanks to David at Vintage Gale for making these fine replica stands available and for being so pleasant to deal with. Now looking forward to a weekend of music ...
Mr Tibbs
Mr Tibbs