Frustrated with science

[misterdog]

I can only hope that the thing doesn't mutate as rapidly as the cold or 'flu viruses, which is why they've never been cured.

I was also hoping likewise, until.
https://nypost.com/2020/04/21/coronavirus-has-mutated-into-at-least-30-different-strains-study/

Li’s team found that some of the most aggressive strains of the virus were able to generate 270 times the viral load of the weakest strains; in addition, the aggressive strains killed the human cells fastest.

Which may also account for the lack of effectiveness in the testing, and also the huge difference in morbidity across the globe.

 

[Seeker_UK]

I was also hoping likewise, until.
https://nypost.com/2020/04/21/coronavirus-has-mutated-into-at-least-30-different-strains-study/

Well. That's the World royally f**cked then.

 

[clifftaylor]

Depends on whether it's mutating into something more, or less, virulent. I am not a scientist.

 

[stevec67]

I was also hoping likewise, until.
https://nypost.com/2020/04/21/coronavirus-has-mutated-into-at-least-30-different-strains-study/



Which may also account for the lack of effectiveness in the testing, and also the huge difference in morbidity across the globe.

Fox News? Fox News? WTF?
Either way, if this is right then there will be no vaccine and it will wipe out 10% of the population globally. It will then carry on and wipe out 1% of the population every year, and will become the leading cause of death in humans. Nice, eh?

 

[misterdog]

Frustrations with science.
Can't even put a bloody fire out. Though this one is more important as all the forest burning is heavily polluted with radioactive material. And it's headed somewhere we should prefer it not to go.
https://www.greenpeace.org/internat...burns-forest-fires-ukraine-nuclear-radiation/

Though science did provide us with 'cheap' 'clean' electricity..

 

[martin clark]

That's not bad science.
That's simply total & utter failure to manage a long-known problem.


Humans eh; can't like 'em, can't legally hunt & eat them. Useless.

 

[misterdog]

Fox News? Fox News? WTF?

Sorry, New Scientist any better, though this is from 5th March when only 2 strains were known of.

https://www.newscientist.com/articl...are-there-two-strains-and-is-one-more-deadly/

 

[Kraus]

Do you understand how frustrated people are? We've been assured how clever we are...but we aren't.

In part you are judging this from an incorrect perspective - we are experiencing an immediate problem and the answer is taking longer than you/we would wish. You are in at the outset.

Imagine you want a new, radically different car or passenger aeroplane - do you think these are conjured from thin air in weeks. No, they take months and years of various processes to come to a finished, tested product. And this is with known processes along past lines and benefitting from experience.

However, in this case you weren’t aware of the start of the process and so the interval didn’t arouse your unreasonable frustration.

Additionally what is your point? Do you suggest an emotion based solution?

 

[clivem2]

In part you are judging this from an incorrect perspective - we are experiencing an immediate problem and the answer is taking longer than you/we would wish. You are in at the outset.

Imagine you want a new, radically different car or passenger aeroplane - do you think these are conjured from thin air in weeks. No, they take months and years of various processes to come to a finished, tested product. And this is with known processes along past lines and benefitting from experience.

However, in this case you weren’t aware of the start of the process and so the interval didn’t arouse your unreasonable frustration.

Additionally what is your point? Do you suggest an emotion based solution?

I don't expect a social media site / hifi forum to help with a solution but it does help to vent sometimes, it's normal human reaction. I'm sure you can find some scientific research to show this. Do you think that people being emotional is strange? Why have you decided to comment now when the conversation has moved on?

 

[stevec67]

I don't expect a social media site / hifi forum to help with a solution but it does help to vent sometimes, it's normal human reaction. I'm sure you can find some scientific research to show this. Do you think that people being emotional is strange? Why have you decided to comment now when the conversation has moved on?

So basically this is 4 pages of "Waaaaahhhh! Why isn't this fixed yet? It's not fair!" , is it? I'm not sure that I need a science paper to understand that.

 

[clivem2]

So basically this is 4 pages of "Waaaaahhhh! Why isn't this fixed yet? It's not fair!" , is it? I'm not sure that I need a science paper to understand that.

Wrong overall though that can be construed for the original post. Frustration is an emotion after all... The content over the whole 4 pages is not as you describe. There have been a good number of useful and balanced contributions in the discussion.

 

[stevec67]

Wrong! That can be construed for the original post. Frustration is an emotion after all... The content over the whole 4 pages is not as you describe. There have been a good number of useful and balanced contributions in the discussion.

I've just read it again, and I'm sorry but none of those contributions are from you. I just get a repeated "waah!" for the first 2 pages at least.

 

[westsea]

Wrong overall though that can be construed for the original post. Frustration is an emotion after all... The content over the whole 4 pages is not as you describe. There have been a good number of useful and balanced contributions in the discussion.

Most of our real decisions are emotional, the amount of stuff I don't know is almost infinitesimal. Most solutions are the result of development, as a race we have come far from the stone age, unfortunately it doesn't make us better or wiser humans. As Sir Walter Alexander Rayleigh said (the later one)

I wish I loved the Human Race;
I wish I loved its silly face;
I wish I liked the way it walks;
I wish I liked the way it talks;
And when I’m introduced to one,
I wish I thought ‘What Jolly Fun’.

I know... it sounds much more Hilaire Bellock

 

[Mike Reed]

Elecated = elevated. V and C are neighbours when you have fat fingers.
The concentration bit is based on the fact that any infection needs an infective dose.

Firstly, Steve, I guarantee that your fingers are more dexterous than mine; I manage a one in four double letter or wrong letter count.

Re. masks, your points are valid but not necessarily specific to individuals. I've just read a letter from an emeritus professor in defence primary care in which his wife's three-ply cotton masks for the family have kitchen roll (or toilet tissue?) inserted, which is then discarded after use. There's no question in my mind about the efficacy of masks generally or hand made cotton masks specifically. This little tweak, to my mind. further improves their efficiency, as it would not only add a level of safety but help to absorb the humidity incumbent in wearing a mask.

 

[russel]

Frustrations with science.
Can't even put a bloody fire out. Though this one is more important as all the forest burning is heavily polluted with radioactive material. And it's headed somewhere we should prefer it not to go.
https://www.greenpeace.org/internat...burns-forest-fires-ukraine-nuclear-radiation/

Though science did provide us with 'cheap' 'clean' electricity..

no, the science was done in the ‘40s, the ‘cheap’ ‘clean’ electricity was a cover for nuclear weapons production and the engineering compromises were driven by political and economic considerations.

 

[stevec67]

Re masks:
Well, we've been around houses on this one in earlier threads. There isn't a consensus amongst medical experts and disease control specialists, so I doubt that you and I are going to clear it up. My take on it is all here from about 3 weeks ago and I said then that I'd said my piece. There's no new information yet, so my comments are as before and I'm certainly not typing them again.

 

[Jim Audiomisc]

There are all sorts of frustrations, the media to an extent but in many ways more with the politicians. The frustration with science is that we need the solution with a few months, ie faster than say 18 months. Frustration being borne out of the impact on our lives.

Do not base your impressions of the 'science' on reports in places like the BBC 'Today' programme, or general news/political programmes/papers. Listen to things like the BBC R4 "Inside Science" and "More or Less". General journos often fail to understand or explain and may have no clue about science. They concentrate on trying to 'trip up' politicians so the *journo* can make themselves look clever. Often with the attention span and understanding of a goldfish.

Science is the *method* used to look for understanding and point towards 'solutions'. Not a magic box you just open. Its the best method we've found, but still takes hard work, thought, time, etc. If you want to understand more, try the above programmes and read 'New Scientist' as start points.

Then note that rolling out and applying that science requires engineering.

 

[Jim Audiomisc]

Interesting stuff.

The Russians seem to be the leaders in phage research.

I've never understood why more hasn't been done on using these as delivery systems.

Stephen

Can you patent a phage?

 

[clivem2]

So basically this is 4 pages of "Waaaaahhhh! Why isn't this fixed yet? It's not fair!" , is it? I'm not sure that I need a science paper to understand that.

I've just read it again, and I'm sorry but none of those contributions are from you. I just get a repeated "waah!" for the first 2 pages at least.

Make up your mind. 4 pages of posts (78 posts so far) or a small selection of posts over 2 pages? Inconsistent.

 

[Vinny]

Can you patent a phage?

There has been a few items on the radio about phages, especially about their use in communist Russia.

During the communist era they were "developed" for use for many diseases and were routinely used. Generally, what was/is administered is a cocktail of pahages that have been selected over years upon years, essentially by trial and error, with no, and no need, for any understanding how they worked, just that they did.

Phages would not be used to deliver anything, they are the medicine/cure whatever you want to call it.

Unfortunately they are treatments for bacterial disease, not viral, so no use for treating C19.

Patents have been granted on some naturally-occurring organisms, and they have certainly been granted for modified ones.