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from ronald to donald

Paul R said:
Stand back and look at the whole. Joke candidates now dominating the debate.

Paul
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Trump is a nutcase, and is indeed a joke candidate (though America is so crazy he could yet end up President).

Corbyn is no joke candidate. True, at the beginning nobody thought he'd have much of a chance, but he has just been himself, and has found that what he has to say, his vision, is shared by many, and his honesty and integrity has been a breath of fresh air that has resonated with many.

The joke may yet be on those who think Corbyn is a joke ;)
 
Paul R said:
There are quite a lot of similarities between Jeremy Corbyn and Donald Trump.
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That did occur to me as well. They are obviously as different from each other as can be but they do seem to have had this counter-intuitive success for similar reasons.
 
I liked what Trump said about campaign finance,

Donald Trump said:
I gave to many people. Before this, before two months ago, I was a businessman. I give to everybody. When they call, I give. And you know what? When I need something from them, two years later, three years later, I call them. They are there for me. And that's a broken system.
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Paul
 
Originally Posted by Paul R

There are quite a lot of similarities between Jeremy Corbyn and Donald Trump.
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If they got into power I would say one might be a bit misguided about what he can do in the world, the other would make me feel that there will not be world left for me to feel anything about.
 
Trump is a right wing reactionary with foot in mouth syndrome. I think he has already said enough to rule him out.

Then again I get the sense that most Americans would vote for Ronald Mcdonald as a candidate. They voted for Ronald Reagan and Bush
 
gassor said:
If they got into power I would say one might be a bit misguided about what he can do in the world, the other would make me feel that there will not be world left for me to feel anything about.
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Corbyn isn't going to be PM, let's not worry about that.

Trump, OTOH, is worth paying attention to. Especially given the trouble Hillary is in.

Paul
 
Minstrel SE said:
Trump is a right wing reactionary with foot in mouth syndrome. I think he has already said enough to rule him out.
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The point of the Trump story though is that the gaffs and outrageous statements keep increasing his lead not ending his campaign. Which is the point of the various articles and the comparison with Corbyn -- things that should damage your campaign and/or rule you out of actually winning do not seem to be having that effect.

In both cases it seems because these "unpolitical" views seem to connect with voters in a way that the traditional approaches do not. Whether this can continue into nomination/leadership and then eventual election is the big question of course. And both have (possibly) the same problem where connecting with people who vote in primaries and Labour leadership elections may very well not translate into votes at a national election.
 
matthewr said:
The point of the Trump story though is that the gaffs and outrageous statements keep increasing his lead not ending his campaign. Which is the point of the various articles and the comparison with Corbyn -- things that should damage your campaign and/or rule you out of actually winning do not seem to be having that effect.

In both cases it seems because these "unpolitical" views seem to connect with voters in a way that the traditional approaches do not. Whether this can continue into nomination/leadership and then eventual election is the big question of course. And both have (possibly) the same problem where connecting with people who vote in primaries and Labour leadership elections may very well not translate into votes at a national election.
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I don't see your points at all. Corbyn has to my knowledge said nothing stupid and has certainly not sunk to the gutter attack-dog level of the other three candidates. The negativity fired at him from the right-wing press, e.g. anti-Semitism etc, appear to be entirely substance-free smears and has been refuted/disproved very articulately and unambiguously by the man himself. It is abundantly clear this man is not a racist in any sense. From that point we are left with a candidate that has an economic policy that appears pretty close to your MainlyMacro blog bloke's views (i.e. eminently sensible in my view), wants to bring our disasterous rail system gradually back into public control as franchises expire and sees no point in wasting countless £bns in ancient cold-war weapons technology that we can never use anyway. I'm sorry, but as a centrist/traditional Liberal I'm seeing nothing especially odd or controversial there at all. Just a candidate with real political ideals and policies who isn't prepared to sink to the usual evasive deflection tactics or personal attacks of his peers and is actually trying to discuss issues. He could not be further from the two-dimensional cartoon that is Donald Trump.
 
matthewr said:
Yes. Whatever "trouble" Hilary is in will likely fix itself very quickly ig the GOP pick The Donald.
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I'm not so sure. She has problems with her evasion of federal law and funding issues, including from Trump.

Current polls show Clinton/Trump moving from 51%/34% to 47%/42% over the last few weeks.

I haven't seen a Cameron/Corbyn|Burnham|Cooper|Kendall 'what if' poll yet. That would be interesting.

Paul
 
Paul R said:
I'm not so sure. She has problems with her evasion of federal law and funding issues, including from Trump.

Current polls show Clinton/Trump moving from 51%/34% to 47%/42% over the last few weeks.

I haven't seen a Cameron/Corbyn|Burnham|Cooper|Kendall 'what if' poll yet. That would be interesting.

Paul
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It won't be Cameron/anyone, as he's standing down before the next election. Osborne v Corbyn etc? Boris v Corbyn etc? Teresa (God forbid) May v Corbyn etc?
 
Tony L said:
I don't see your points at all. Corbyn has to my knowledge said nothing stupid and has certainly not sunk to the gutter attack-dog level of the other three candidates.
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My point is not that Corbyn is like Trump or that he is a racist (a preposterous suggestion) but that he has views that make him supposedly, in the minds of the political class and the media, unpopular and unelectable. And yet despite these views his popularity remains strong. Obviously there is a world of difference between someone who believes Mexicans immigrants are rapists and someone who wants to re-open the coal mines, but the effect we observe because of these views is similar.

And in both cases the really big question is do the controversial views in question meet approval with the electorate in general or just the GOP base or the 600,000 new Labour leadership voters.

Also note that Trump holds some very non-GOP ideas especially about Social Security and the point of the Ezra Klein articles -- which nobody seems to have read before the rush to point out the very obvious about Trump and Corbyn being very different -- and the same lesson applies there for the GOP elite as Corbyn presents for Labour and the centre left.

To wit: Are the popular aspects of Corbyn's campaign that are presumed to be vote losers actually vote winners? And do these effects translate to winning seats in Nuneaton or just Glasgow?

I also suspect this is essentially Paul's point and the failure of people (apparently) to read the articles and just jump in with "of course Trump is not like Corbyn" makes his suspicion that you and others would miss the point somewhat prophetic. As I said the overlaps with Corbyn I get from reading those articles and following the Trump saga were very obvious to me (it's quite a simple point).

Paul did of course phrase his post in a mischievous way to create exactly the effect we saw in the subsequent posts, but that is sort of how these things work in point scoring internet debates.

BTW If you want "attack dog" politics the people you want are Jeremy's friends not mild mannered Yvette Cooper.
 
Joe Hutch said:
It won't be Cameron/anyone, as he's standing down before the next election. Osborne v Corbyn etc? Boris v Corbyn etc? Teresa (God forbid) May v Corbyn etc?
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He said he would run a full second term but not a third. So plenty of wriggle room.

Boris/Jeremy would be fun.

Paul

PS. What matthewr said and he said it rather better than I could.
 
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