From D800 to Leica M to what next?

[dogbait]

So I used to tote around a D800 everywhere I went - work or even out to bars and clubs. It was a stunningly good camera but it was also a very bulky camera, especially with a zoom mounted. What really began to make it increasingly impractical for me was that people would really overreact on seeing it. Especially in today's age of camera phones, you don't really see as many people using DSLRs at social events.

Following that I bought a Leica M - which is an incredible camera. Picture quality wasn't as good as the D800 but it wasn't far off (in good light at least). People's reactions were also significantly more positive on seeing the Leica.

That said whilst it was compact it was heavy. Weighed as much as the D800 in fact. And also it cost a lot of money, which meant I found myself feeling a little precious about it - (the things you own owning you and all that) so I had to let it go.

Currently using my iPhone 6s which is a very good camera phone, but not a patch on the D800 or Leica.

Wondering if anyone here has had similar experience leading them to perhaps a Ricoh or one of the smaller Fuji cameras?

I've spent enough money going down this photography rabbit hole, so keen to pace myself and learn from other's experiences. Anyone able to recommend a reasonably compact, large sensor camera which doesn't cost the earth and feels good to use?

 

[Clay B]

I was fairly (slightly!) decent at photography at one time but lack of time and the move to digital left me far behind. I'm getting back into it by going to clubs, reading, looking at photos on this site, and taking pictures. Went through the stage where I looked at Canon 5mklll's, 7D's, and Leicas. Sensor size, megapixels, and frames per second, the whole deal. None were cheap and I slowly began to realize that really good photographers take great shots with practically anything including iPhones. Right now I use a humble Nikon D40 with a couple of DX kit zooms and a Fuji X100S. Both inexpensive, relatively small, and light weight. I enjoy using them, take them with me frequently, and I don't mind them getting nicked up a little. I'm slowly....very slowly getting better. The shots they deliver are great, limited only by the guy behind the camera. There are many similarly compact and inexpensive cameras from several manufacturers that would do the same. Like audio we sometimes miss the joy of photography by worrying about the latest equipment. I'd say you're heading in the right direction with what you're thinking.

 

[jimification]

If you want to carry it everywhere then I would say you need to determine the size and weight that you can deal with - will it have to go in a bag? Jacket pocket? Trouser pocket?

As above, I think you will see many people recommending the Fuji x100/S/T and for good reason. They have very good IQ, are very nice to handle, look great (in the non-threatening conversation starter way that you mention) and are not too expensive (especially if you get something like a 100s second hand) Another benefit is that the jpeg's SOOC are so good. I shoot raw+jpeg and only actually use the raw on around 10% of the shots I keep.

If the 100 is too big, Fuji recently released the x70 which is a smaller version with no viewfinder.

 

[Cesare]

It's all going to come down to the lenses that you want to use, and whether you feel happy with a cropped sensor (so smaller than 35m). The D800 and Leica M are both excellent, in fact, exceptional cameras. You are not going to find a smaller, lighter camera with better or matching image quality, but you will be able to get close.

I'd suggest a Fuji X system to try next. The cameras are 'only' 16mp, and use a cropped sensor, but the lenses are excellent (all of them) with some outstanding (say the 35/1.4). A basic X-T1 with standard zoom and a prime or two will cover just about any situation. If you want smaller, try one of the ones without a viewfinder if this will work for you, or if you like the Leica way of doing things, consider the X-Pro2.

I've been down the route you have, and wanted a small decent quality camera, and the Fuji X-Pro1 was the one for me, and it's worked really well. I've not dumped the other camera systems though, so I can go from cropped digital to large format film, and they all have their day, but the fuji system is clearly one of the most convenient and gets lots of use.

Fuji example:

DSCF3233 by Cesare Ferrari, on Flickr

 

[topoxforddoc]

I think you have to ask yourself what you want out of the camera first before deciding.

What sort of subjects do you photograph? Family/portraits/street/landscape/sports/lowlight/concerts/theatre/macro nature/wildlife ???

Do you want interchangeable lenses?

Waterproofing?

How much of an issue is size and weight? I know that you have sold your Leica M, but my normal carry round camera is my Leica M9 with a tiny 1980s vintage 35 summilux. That fits into my jacket/coat pocket. It is heavy though, as it's made of metal and not polycarbonate.

If you HAVE to do sports/wildlife, then the best solution would be a DSLR
If you shoot mostly portraits/street/family, then the Fuji X, Leica Q, Oly OM-D, Panasonic GX etc would do fine
etc etc

So could give us a few pointers?

 

[sls4321]

I went from DSLR to Leica M some years ago.

M is vastly more practical, but has its limitations. I tend to see them as a benefit. Using a single fixed lens, in my case usually a 50/f2, and aperture priority is just so simple and a blessed relief. I also got rid of colour and use a MM. I consider it incredibly practical and do not consider weight an issue. Of course the main issue is the lense quality. That's what it's all about. If you don't enjoy this approach to photography, then you have to think what you are trying to achieve.

Having moved to M (M9 first) I also bought a Q, a stunning 28mm Lux lens with a fully hi-tech 24mp CMOS Maestro II body attached, but it's really about the lens quality.

I needed long range, so bought a second hand a7r, a 180 Telyt-R and 2x converter. The a7r is very light and has tremendous ISO performance, close to the MM. The a7r cost £700, which is stupid cheap for its quality. The focus peaking makes manual focus a breeze.

So perhaps you should try a Sony a7 type body with Leica M lenses. A popular combination, and a used a7r will not cost you much to trade out.

My son has an XPro1 and much prefer the Sony.

 

[EIffel]

It might also be worth looking at the Sony A7 series (full frame, but lighter than Nikon/Leica). While some of the lenses can be quite large (similar to other full frame ones), there are a few compact options (35mm F2.8 for instance).

They also have some other full frame or smaller fixed lens cameras which are worth considering (similar to what Fuji has in quite some ways, but with a different sensor size)

 

[joel]

Daido Moriyama uses point & shoot cameras. Daido Moriyama is better at taking photos than anyone on here (and pretty much anyone anywhere), therefore a point & shoot camera is more than enough.

 

[dogbait]

Thanks for all the responses. Great info there!

Right now I use a humble Nikon D40 with a couple of DX kit zooms and a Fuji X100S.

Actually have my wife's D40X in a drawer next to me - she never uses it since she bought an iPhone 6. Might start carrying it around - thanks for the suggestion

At the risk of pursuing gear more than craft (have to ask) what do you think of the X100S versus the D40? I'd imagine the sensor noise (a problem with the D40 in low light IIRC) must be night and day between the two?

Also what lens do you tote? My lens of choice on the D40 was always the Sigma 35mm 1.4 EX. Top lens, and you can get it for stupidly cheap used.

If you want to carry it everywhere then I would say you need to determine the size and weight that you can deal with - will it have to go in a bag? Jacket pocket? Trouser pocket?

Bag or just hanging around the shoulder. Don't mind it getting the odd bump so long as it keeps working (which was nice about the Leica - it felt like it could handle the damage but the cost was so high of replacing and repairing that I think I handled it more gently than it deserved!).

As above, I think you will see many people recommending the Fuji x100/S/T and for good reason.

If the 100 is too big, Fuji recently released the x70 which is a smaller version with no viewfinder.

Think I will definitely give the X100 a try. Wish there was a good rental place like LensRentals in the UK to play with these things for a few weeks - often takes at least that long to get a feel for it.

Didn't know about the X70 - if all else is equal that might be just the ticket.

the fuji system is clearly one of the most convenient and gets lots of use.

Lovely pic Cesare, where was that taken?

What sort of subjects do you photograph? Family/portraits/street/landscape/sports/lowlight/concerts/theatre/macro nature/wildlife ???

Family, portraits, street, landscape, lowlight, macro, architecture, kids and dogs. Quite a lot really.

Do you want interchangeable lenses?

Been shooting pics since my teens so still have a camera - glad to say with the Leica money I was fortunately able to afford a D810 (sold the D800 - focusing could be pretty inconsistent). So a fixed lens 35mm or 28mm would be awesome.

Waterproofing?

I live in the UK so practically a requirement!

How much of an issue is size and weight? I know that you have sold your Leica M, but my normal carry round camera is my Leica M9 with a tiny 1980s vintage 35 summilux.

I actually sold my Leica M9 to buy the Leica M - biggest photographic regret of my life - that M9 was epic. After a few months of use the weight and gestalt of the M just felt off to me. Really missed that M9 - still bloody do.

M is vastly more practical, but has its limitations. I tend to see them as a benefit.

Having moved to M (M9 first) I also bought a Q, a stunning 28mm Lux lens with a fully hi-tech 24mp CMOS Maestro II body attached, but it's really about the lens quality.

I needed long range, so bought a second hand a7r, a 180 Telyt-R and 2x converter. The a7r is very light and has tremendous ISO performance, close to the MM. The a7r cost £700, which is stupid cheap for its quality. The focus peaking makes manual focus a breeze.

So perhaps you should try a Sony a7 type body with Leica M lenses. A popular combination, and a used a7r will not cost you much to trade out.

I loved the feel of the M9 + a single 35mm Summilux but to be honest focusing it with any subject that moved (kids, dogs) would give me a headache. It was my go to camera for a relaxing walk through the woods or street shooting in town though.

I'm actually trying to keep my possessions to a minimum (want to cure a man of a bad habit allow him to indulge it to excess!). Going from a Sony A7, Leica M, Nikon D and various other pocket compacts to just a single Nikon D has been really nice.

I had to have a dedicated shelf in my study with an 8 port extension strip for all the various battery chargers!

Want a good pocket(ish) camera which can handle a bit of rain, the odd fast moving toddler and not draw a crowd when I take it out my bag

It might also be worth looking at the Sony A7 series (full frame, but lighter than Nikon/Leica).

Good tip, I actually tried a Sony A7 II for a week. It stopped working after dropping it on grass from about 2ft. The optical stabilisation system apparently jammed up which is odd since the camera was off so you'd figure they'd park the stabilisation mechanics to prevent problems like that.

Great camera, but it felt a little too big. Haven't tried the sony R1 though...

 

[Cesare]

That shot was in the French Alps, near Annecy. I've had lots of good shots with it out and about. More fuji X shots:

DSCF3247 by Cesare Ferrari, on Flickr

DSCF1707 by Cesare Ferrari, on Flickr


DSCF0135 by Cesare Ferrari, on Flickr


Honestly, if you like Lieca, but want something significantly cheaper which gives you most of the feel, but allows you to just chuck it around your shoulder and not worry about it, then this is the camera system for you.

 

[Targett]

I made a similar journey (on a much humbler scale) a few years ago, ditching my Nikon D50 for a Panasonic GF1 which I loved. Like you I began to tire of lugging the dslr about and found it too conspicuous. I also didn't want to be associated with a minority of dslr users, long lens permanently attached, spraying frames like a machine gun in any tranquil spot; what's more, the GF1 pissed on the Nikon for image quality. Small frame sensor be damned, I'd still have that camera if I weren't now so long-sighted that I must have a viewfinder.

So, getting to the point, Olympus Pen F? Small and discreet, great lens line up, better image quality than full frame fascists would admit.

 

[dogbait]

Honestly, if you like Lieca, but want something significantly cheaper which gives you most of the feel, but allows you to just chuck it around your shoulder and not worry about it, then this is the camera system for you.

Thanks Cesare, lovely pics again, love the shot of Edgware Road station just to bring us all back down to earth!

Seems the Fuji X series is the way to go.

I made a similar journey (on a much humbler scale) a few years ago, ditching my Nikon D50 for a Panasonic GF1 which I loved

Thanks Targett. If I could do it again I'd have done it on a humbler scale too! Certainly would have more money in my pocket for travelling to shoot interesting places instead of buying fancy cameras!

 

[topoxforddoc]

Pop into an old fashioned shop, try a few and buy the one you like best

 

[JemHayward]

My every day carry around camera is a Fuji X-E2 with the XF27. It fits in my coat pocket, in some trouser pockets and it I drop it, or lose it, it's something I can afford to replace. I could sell everything and my a Leica m9 and a lens, but, I'd not enjoy using it, for many reasons. I've also recently tested my prejudices, and have tested my lenses, and I'm rather pained to report that my Zeiss lenses (at one time considered better than their Leitz equivalents) are NOT better than the Fuji lenses. In reality, my photography isn't limited by my cameras, or my lenses, and I really doubt if many peoples is either. A camera is a tool, and no matter how much I spend on a chisel, it doesn't make me a cabinet maker!

I can operate my X-E2 intuitively, and it "just works" - in fact its easier to use that the X-T1 which is useful, especially for my manual lenses, and in reality, the Fuji images allow me to print to 120cm by 80cm for exhibitions - so I'm pretty much sorted.

Doesn't stop me wanting a 16mm f1.4 though...

 

[Milan]

I have a Nikon D800 and a Fuji XT-1 and XE-1. I do like them both. However, when travelling, especially walking, the Fuji tends to be the first choice. I like the way it handles, the old school controls coupled with a full digital menu. The best part though is the image quality as I do less PP with the Fuji than the Nikon. I, like Jem, use the XE and 27mm which can drop into my shorts pocket for simplicity. Great lens too; Fuji do not seem to make one that is anything but good.

 

[JemHayward]

After only 40 years of serious photography, I've realised that how a camera handles is rather more important that absolute lens quality (an obsession of mine due to my profession) or the pixel count, autofocus speed or metering technology. I used Contax SLRs for many years, and got on fine, but the advent of digital (I was a very late adopter) forced me in to Canon, and despite many years of use and upgrading to the 5D, I really never bonded with the EOS system. The Fuji X100 and subsequent models, worked for me.

 

[jimification]

JemHayward: Good post!

 

[Lefty]

Sony RX1rII?

Not handled one myself, but looks very interesting on paper...

Lefty

 

[dogbait]

Sony RX1rII?
Not handled one myself, but looks very interesting on paper...
Lefty

Been wanting to try it, but everytime I picked one up I felt a little underwhelmed - especially at £2.5k. That said the old RX1 has dropped down to just shy of £1k - might be worth a punt for someone who really likes 35mm as a focal length.

 

[JemHayward]

Sony RX1rII?

Not handled one myself, but looks very interesting on paper...

Lefty

A friend who borrowed my X100 bought an X100S and then later moved on to the RX1 and loved it. I tried hers and found I really couldn't get on with it at all. Image quality was good, but the lack of a built in EVF (she eventually bought the EVF, but its not great, and she doesn't use it now) and the way it handled really put me off, which is a shame, as I wanted to like it, as I'm a Zeiss lens fan.