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Four Green Fields

Waldteufel

pfm Member
You may know this song. It's an allegory, in which the four fields are the provinces of Ireland. The narrator is an old woman, meant to be the personification of Ireland. She laments the fact that one of her fields is in bondage, and looks forward to the day when her "fine strong sons, as brave as were their fathers," will restore her lost field to her.

You obviously know what this is about. I was surprised to discover that it was written by Tommy Makem. I often saw him on stage with the Clancy Brothers, but never suspected him of harbouring such nationalist sentiments. He wrote it in 1967, just a year after the 50th anniversary of the Easter Rising, at a time when many old rebel songs were being dusted off, and new ones written.

Maybe he just climbed on a bandwagon. However, it was a powerful and emotive song, especially in the atmosphere which prevailed then. Shortly afterwards, the troubles started in the north, and one cannot help but feel that songs like this helped to stir things up, and that singers and groups should maybe have refrained from performing them.

The real surprise, though, is where I last heard this song. Believe it or not, it was on BBC Radio 3. The presenter was talking to the director Ken Loach, and asked him to select three songs which meant something to him. He chose Joe Hill by Paul Robeson, about an American trade union activist, the Internationale, and Four Green Fields.

The female presenter commented that the last song was very moving. And so it is, but maybe in an undesirable way. It seemed a strange comment from someone working for the BBC, which operates under a royal charter, given that the song seems to call for the violent annexation, against the democratically-stated wishes of the majority of its population, of part of her Majesty's realm.

The song is, moreover, based on a very oversimplified interpretation of modern Irish history. The province of Ulster has nine counties. Of these, Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal were content to become part of the Free State, now the Irish Republic, for demographic reasons. For similar reasons, so strong was the opposition in the other six counties to being governed from Dublin that thousands turned out to express their opposition by signing the Ulster Covenant - some, if contemporary reports are to be believed, in blood.

For me, the problem of the North is a problem with no solution, unless the demographics change and nationalists end up in the majority. Until then, the most we can hope for is that a younger generation will be more tolerant of each others' wishes and beliefs than was the older one. I must say I'm not overly optimistic. I'm also concerned, remembering how things were in 1966, and what happened just three years later, that this year's centenary celebration of the Rising will charge the atmosphere once again, and inspire a disaffected nationalist youth to resume the struggle.
 
In the late 80's a group of us would rent a house near Roundstone in Connemara. It was a song often played in the bars. That was in the time when the IRA used to go round the pubs collecting money for the 'cause' they expected tourists to contribute as well. On advice from an Irish friend who holidayed with us, we put in a quid. I was never clear on what would happen if with didn't but not brave enough to find out.
 
Yes, I daresay it would cost more than a quid to repair the drill holes in the knees of your kecks, not to mention the laundry bill.
 
Where do you live waldtuefel and what is the point you are, unsuccessfully, trying to make?

p.s. The Good Friday Agreement effectively did solve the issue.
 
I love the song Grace personally, it's about the marriage and impending death by firing squad in kilmailham gaol of the 16yr old Joseph Mary plunkett.

The song is currently undergoing a bit of a revival in certain parts.
 
There is also the older Sean Bhean bhocht but what do I know of Irish music and song?
 
There is also the older Sean Bhean bhocht but what do I know of Irish music and song?

I love the 'rebs' some great song writers on the nationalist side, Luke Kelly and The Dubliners to name some.

Some of my favourites

Raglan Road
Sean South
Joe McDonnell
Dirty Old Town
Whiskey In The Jar
The Holy Ground
Boys Of The Old Brigade
Bob Dylan's With God On Our Side (The Patriot Game).

"Dylan's most famous borrowing from the Clancys was the melody from an Irish song "The Patriot Game" written by the Irish songwriter Dominic Behan, brother of Brendan Behan the writer. The melody is originally American. It appears in an Appalachian song "The Nightingale."
 
Dirty old Town was written by Ewan Maccoll (born James Henry Miller, English) about Salford in Manchester.
 
I love the song Grace personally, it's about the marriage and impending death by firing squad in kilmailham gaol of the 16yr old Joseph Mary plunkett.

The song is currently undergoing a bit of a revival in certain parts.

Joseph Mary Plunkett was 28 when he married Grace Gifford, before being executed for treason. Possibly you are confusing him with Kevin Barry, who was 18 when he was hanged in Mountjoy for murdering an unarmed policeman in the cause of Irish freedom. Some nice republican heroes we have. Who on earth is Clara Bannister?
 
Joseph Mary Plunkett was 28 when he married Grace Gifford, before being executed for treason. Possibly you are confusing him with Kevin Barry, who was 18 when he was hanged in Mountjoy for murdering an unarmed policeman in the cause of Irish freedom. Some nice republican heroes we have. Who on earth is Clara Bannister?
Who are you?
 
I have met Clara Bannister. Also knew his wife. He was a decent sort on the face of it, but I know that he was also a member of a right wing UK political party.
 
Joseph Mary Plunkett was 28 when he married Grace Gifford, before being executed for treason. Possibly you are confusing him with Kevin Barry, who was 18 when he was hanged in Mountjoy for murdering an unarmed policeman in the cause of Irish freedom. Some nice republican heroes we have. Who on earth is Clara Bannister?

Thanks

Tony
 
Just before the Rising, Plunkett was in hospital. I forget with what, but he was always very delicate, and I think he may have had consumption, which was rife in Dublin then. He discharged himself, and arrived at the GPO with his neck heavily bandaged. He spent most of his time there lying on a stretcher, giving orders to his ADC Michael Collins, AKA the Big Fella. Collins survived the Rising, and came over to London with Arthur Griffith to negotiate the treaty on the orders of De Valera. They probably got the best deal they could, but Dev was unhappy with it, and so the civil war kicked off. My father worked in an accountant's office at that time, and the streets of Dublin were a dangerous place to be. Nor was the countryside much safer. Collins was shot and killed in an ambush near his home village in deepest West Cork. My wife is a great posthumous fan of Michael Collins, based on the erroneous belief that he was as good-looking as Liam Neeson; who, of course, played him in the film.
 
I have met Clara Bannister. Also knew his wife. He was a decent sort on the face of it, but I know that he was also a member of a right wing UK political party.

I'm always intrigued by this left/right polarization in UK politics. We have nothing like it in Ireland. Our two main parties are a legacy of the Civil War, and our Labour Party is unconnected ideologically with the one in Britain. We have a Socialist Workers' Party, but it has never really made much headway. Ireland had a brief flirtation with fascism in the 1930s, in the form of the Blueshirts.

Is it not possible that someone might be decent, regardless of which party they belong to? At least joining a party suggests a certain level of commitment. Consider how many people joined the Communist Party as undergraduates before the war, even if, with the benefit of hindsight, they regretted doing so.
 
I have met Clara Bannister. Also knew his wife. He was a decent sort on the face of it, but I know that he was also a member of a right wing UK political party.

Considering on pfm Clara claimed to be a lesbian that makes a lot of sense.
 


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