Flexible and home working and custom and practice
- Thread starter foxwelljsly
- Start date
Mike Hughes
pfm Member
Not a straw man at all. I am also talking wholly about internal culture and ideology and detailing that in my line of work why it matters is that you can have an entire advice work career within Citizens Advice advice; come across a specific scenario and know what your next steps are. Faced with the same situation in a local authority advice setting your response would be governed by issues which simply wouldn’t have crossed your mind in your previous setting and, unless familiar with the culture and ideology in your new setting, the potential for significant errors is quite large.
Again, that learning works much better face to face but still wouldn’t be a justification for anyone being in the office5 days a week.
Mike Hughes
pfm Member
Reduction in office occupation in many UK cities and towns has had a well documented impact on the local economy; rents etc. It has not however led to the kind of economic collapse that people who believe that work = presenteeism believed. Weirdly people working at home do indeed cost less and are usually as productive if not more so.
There is a well known but largely unspoken case of one well known employer, who may or may not be known for their alleged employment consultation expertise, who spent what we would colloquially describe as a ”shit load” on employee surveillance only to audit and discover that all those WFH were far cheaper and more productive than those in their office buildings if only they’d not spent said “shit load” on surveillance. They have made significant redundancies; shut multiple offices but artfully continue to recommend to other employers that the office is the place to be.
gintonic
50 shades of grey pussy cats
I wasn't asking you -
Darth Vader
From the Dark Side
Exactly! I am sitting on a top notch office chair bought for me by my employer more than 20 years ago. I also have the telephone and other kit that they provided for me at the same time to WFH! My role was global and I often held meetings in the early hours to bring on board AP and the US/LA geographies. My last manager before I retired was based in Earth City - yes really! He was holding the weekly UK meetings for us in EMEA at 5am his time.
I also gave presentations and training to the ROTW from my home office and it was an old school process just a telephone and I supplied the presentation documents up front and just talked everyone through the slides/spreadsheets. It worked remarkedly well and I no longer had to spend time away from family travelling the globe to meetings.
DV
paulfromcamden
Baffled
I'm a bit disappointed we've got to page 5 and no one has yet listed attending Teams meetings in their underpants as a benefit of working from home.
Mike Hughes
pfm Member
I don’t especially care. I do apologise for no-one explaining the internet.
Jezzer
Unspecified
The return to office mandate didn’t impact me as my contract states that my location is ‘virtual’. Some of my colleagues weren’t so fortunate as their contracts state ‘London’ or ‘Cambridge’ etc, meaning they have to commute to their nearest office 3 days a week.
I’m not slacking though (unless I’m using ‘Slack’). Work is really hard and the hours have been crazy lately.
I’m glad I’m not a Japanese Salaryman. Those poor buggers have the worst work/life balance. Working from dawn till dusk then getting drunk with the boss, passing out on the train on that 2 hour commute, getting into bed for 2 hours sleep then repeating that whole process every day until you die. Falling asleep at your desk or in a meeting is looked upon favourably as it shows your commitment to being in the office.
I’m not slacking though (unless I’m using ‘Slack’). Work is really hard and the hours have been crazy lately.
I’m glad I’m not a Japanese Salaryman. Those poor buggers have the worst work/life balance. Working from dawn till dusk then getting drunk with the boss, passing out on the train on that 2 hour commute, getting into bed for 2 hours sleep then repeating that whole process every day until you die. Falling asleep at your desk or in a meeting is looked upon favourably as it shows your commitment to being in the office.
Cav
pfm Member
The first could very easily get you sacked; the second nowhere near as easily.
kensalriser
pfm Member
20 years? Absolute beginner!
paulfromcamden
Baffled
It's fair to say any culture that has coined a word for sudden death from overwork (karoshi) probably does have a fairly unhealthy work culture!
I think the problem in Japan is not only long hours, it's about the pressure of obligation and a very rigid hierarchy that can make it in effect impossible to complain about workload to a manager.
The other side of that is that some people seem to pretty much live at their desk without really doing much. But they're there when the boss arrives and there when he leaves. And that's what matters!
calorgas
Generic middle-aged man
It's happened at least once in one of my morning meetings, but it wasn't me - someone getting up to answer a knock at the door revealed their boxers. It was all very funny
. I was also heartened to spot the top of a hot water bottle sneaking into shot from behind a desk a couple of months ago, as it meant I wasn't the only one!My previous office was closed during the pandemic which only leaves me with one that would take the best part of 2hrs each way and expensive train fares to get to, so I'm relieved that my employers haven't asked us to come in on a regular basis (I've actually only been there once!). Like others, I have daily contact and online meetings with people on multiple continents so in many ways working from home in a quiet and comfortable space really assists with that. Plus of course I've had the justification to set up a kick-ass office hifi system lol. I do miss the casual office conversations though and in an ideal world I'd like to be able to go into the office more regularly if only for that.
Jezzer
Unspecified
Sounds like my old manager from about 20 years ago. All he ever did was surf the internet. The director (an old army type and a spitting image of Sir Ranulph Fiennes) loved him.
At this place we were expected to be at our desks no matter what. It wasn’t so bad as it was a fairly easy going and not particularly challenging place to work as our manager was incredibly lazy.
I caught up with my old manager a couple of years ago. He said he had been made redundant. The guy spent almost two decades doing next to nothing and was finally found out!
foxwelljsly
Me too, I ate one sour too.
We have had to let go of at least one person that doesn't know when to turn off the camera and microphone on their computer.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
While I take the point, I have found that training and meetings which are face to face tend to be more effective than the virtual ones. For me, it comes down to being able to read the room. Personal interaction is an intangible but valuable resource. I suspect that a good trainer, delivering good virtual training, could well be better still delivering in person.
However, the additional benefits of face to face interaction might not offset the additional costs and inconvenience, so virtual very definitely has a place. I think it is useful to be able to recognise when it is likely to be worth it.