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Flat Response

kasperhauser said:
On the subject of strange planets, no audio playback device I have ever owned, ... has ever failed to "play music".
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I would argue "has ever failed to make a noise" that could with a greater or lesser (mental) effort be interpreted as "playing music". My experience has been that some systems draw you in and make the music interesting and intelligible, and others fail completely.
 
Peter Stockwell said:
I would argue "has ever failed to make a noise" that could with a greater or lesser (mental) effort be interpreted as "playing music". My experience has been that some systems draw you in and make the music interesting and intelligible, and others fail completely.
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Here's hoping that I never find myself hearing Beethoven on an AM radio and being unable to identify it as music, and enjoy it as such.

One man's "noise" is another's beauty, apparently.
 
kasperhauser said:
Here's hoping that I never find myself hearing Beethoven on an AM radio and being unable to identify it as music, and enjoy it as such.

One man's "noise" is another's beauty, apparently.
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On the first: If you were hearing it for the first time, and depending on your culture (European, Chinese, Indian, African, whatever), you may or may not be able to enjoy it as music. Music is not always universally appealing, and less so when to understand it the mental effort is too great, in my experience.

On the second: My parents regurlarly demanded that I turned that "bl00dy row" down, so yes "noise" to one is beauty to another.
 
kasperhauser said:
I suppose as long as you have a hifi, you'll have music. Thankfully, I suffer no such restriction.
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I feel that I'm not communicating very well. I can recognise and enjoy music on many devices, but some music will not be well conveyed in some circumstances.

How many people say they do not like Opera, for example, yet once taken to a real Opera performed live will enjoy it ?

I have some friends who have the worlds worst system, it's excruciatingly awful to listen to, they have very restricted tastes, pretty much only blues & blues rock.
 
davidsrsb said:
Because Opera is a theatrical live experience as well as music. Theatre often doesn't come across on TV too well either.
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There's that element, true. Another reason cited by some (i.e.my brother) is the "screaming females", and they appear to "sing" live, more than they "scream" on record.
 
Robert said:
A fascinating read, though very disappointed to read that CF actually believed that nonsense, but those were different times. I believed it for a good while too.
I honestly thought he knew it was rubbish (his piece is littered with inaccuracy in places too, especially around the CD measurements) and just wrote what he thought the punters wanted.

I have two sets of TFR and a full set of HFR. It was a fun read then and now, but wrong on just about every count.
It's only positive was a recognition of a certain type of sound which suited a limited range of musical tastes, and promoting some equipment able to satisfy that limited appeal.
Both magazines were clearly more about politics and promotion than hi-fi.
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He always was a bit of a tosser, though.

He didn't have to write anodyne reviews to keep advertisers on side, but he sure as hell made damned sure that he wrote things his meal ticket, ie readership, would agree with, regardless of their accuracy.

Chris
 
I enjoyed reading that interview. Interesting that he seems to have learnt nothing in the decades since the Flat response folded. It was lively, and opinionated, but it was also utterly biased and unfair.
Still, it was quite funny if only because of the 'North Korean' style fundamentalism at work. And that magazine wouldn't have known a joke if it bit them.
 
paskinn said:
I enjoyed reading that interview. Interesting that he seems to have learnt nothing in the decades since the Flat response folded. It was lively, and opinionated, but it was also utterly biased and unfair.
Still, it was quite funny if only because of the 'North Korean' style fundamentalism at work. And that magazine wouldn't have known a joke if it bit them.
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Exactly, well put.
 
kasperhauser said:
On the subject of strange planets, no audio playback device I have ever owned, from the lowliest AM transistor radio to the hi-fi-est of the hi-fi, has ever failed to "play music".

Ok, once, but I popped in a new 9v battery and out the music flowed.
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OK, Mr Pedantic; I didn't mean that in a binary sense!

Some gear "Plays music better".

Happy now?
 
RustyB said:


OK, Mr Pedantic; I didn't mean that in a binary sense!

Some gear "Plays music better".

Happy now?
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Despite your kind attempt to enhance my mood, I'm no more or less happy than I was (I was already quite happy).

It's hopefully no secret that I think the whole "hifi as musical instrument" mindset is pretty funny. Any music playing happens way up the chain; the hifi is a pretty straightforward device, as is the AM radio. There's no magic there.

I've no doubt some people are more adept at hearing the music in the output of these devices, but it isn't because the device in question is a less skilled musician or in some way an inferior musical instrument. I see people making music all the time, and none of them so far has needed a hifi to make it happen.

Just my opinion. I view it the same as watching sports on television. The performances aren't somehow more athletic when viewed on a giant plasma screen vs. a 13" b&w tube tv. The athleticism – just like the musicality – is independent of the viewing/listening device.

Anyway, that's more than enough thread crapping from me. Sorry, all.
 
Given this is an informal forum, I don't think posts should be held to quite the same standard as a dissertation.

So let me just say that, as an example, I've had a steady rotation of integrated amps in the system recently, and it is abundantly obvious to me (and i suspect, most people) that some of them process and amplify the musical signal fed to them in such manner as to produce more enjoyable listening experience than others do.

But that's very wordy; some just "play music better." :)
 
Some just distort the signal in a way you prefer (assuming they are audibly different).
Someone else might prefer and describe as more 'musical' a different distortion signature, or as has been commonly available for minimal cost for many years, no distortion signature.
I'm using the term distortion in the widest sense, not just THD. A tonal skew is a distortion.

TFR promoted products with a particular signature which flattered certain genres of music more than others. This existed in the vinyl front end and loudspeakers only. The Nam/Exposure electronics thing was pure invention. Wonderful for the audiophile with 50 records - 20 of which were Dire Straits, 10 Larry Carlton, 10 Steely Dan and 10 Joan Armatrading.
In later years it was expanded to jazz fusion stuff - largely electronic instruments with computer generated metronomic timing and boosted leading edge sounds.
 
God you talk some bollocks.

The key element is timing.

Nothing to do with distortion or preference.

The better the timing the better the music. Simple.

Some of the amps I've been listening to have a lovely tonal balance, good detailing, but leave me unmoved.

The Naim/Exposure "thing" as you put it has allowed many thousands of happy punters to rejoice in any rock or jazz album reproduced with a degree of involvement and enjoyment quite beyond the limp rendition from a Quad.
 
RustyB said:
The key element is timing.

Nothing to do with distortion or preference.

The better the timing the better the music. Simple.

Some of the amps I've been listening to have a lovely tonal balance, good detailing, but leave me unmoved.

The Naim/Exposure "thing" as you put it has allowed many thousands of happy punters to rejoice in any rock or jazz album reproduced with a degree of involvement and enjoyment quite beyond the limp rendition from a Quad.
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Rusty, the way you express your opinion I find confrontational. I don't think it helps exchange on a forum to write "God you talk a load of bollocks", to my way of reading I find it agressive.

On the gist of what you are saying, I agree completely, but I think many would argue that quad is not limp. In fact, it was qaud 33/303 & 57s that set me on the road to (audiophool) ruin.

Robert, what's wrong with Dires Straits ?
 
Really?

Saying that Naim and Exposure are only good for listening to four artists is surely bollocks in anyone's book.
 
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