paulfromcamden
Baffled
And they all live in Lewisham! Amazing really.
OK turn it around - who do you consider rich?
Extreme Inequality in UK
- Thread starter wulbert
- Start date
OK turn it around - who do you consider rich?
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
Recovering money is not funding. It’s not hair splitting, it’s a fundamental. Tax does not fund the NHS
Minio
Kind of Sort of Not really...
I've always gone to the highest bidder. It's my time that's for sale.
When I was a shop assistant on £5 an hour I looked around to find a job with a higher rate.
Or some time ago, a contract driver on £1.80 look around for something better.
With great respect, if doctors don't feel they are getting enough why don't they do the same? It's not their responsibility if government pay is rubbish.
Strikes are a blunt tool which most people can't afford to indulge in.
When I was a shop assistant on £5 an hour I looked around to find a job with a higher rate.
Or some time ago, a contract driver on £1.80 look around for something better.
With great respect, if doctors don't feel they are getting enough why don't they do the same? It's not their responsibility if government pay is rubbish.
Strikes are a blunt tool which most people can't afford to indulge in.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
That is the very problem, doctors and nurses *are* going elsewhere. Do we want an NHS or not?
paulfromcamden
Baffled
Lots of people do. It's one of the reasons there are 112,500 vacancies.
Doesn't seem like a great result for anyone though does it?
Revealed: record 170,000 staff leave NHS in England as stress and workload take toll
Health service shown to be under some of worst pressure in its history in week Rishi Sunak launched plan to retain and recruit workforce
Ponty
pfm Member
OK, I’d say either £100K income or £1M net worth, including property and pension assets. That includes an equivalent DC pot value for a DB pension. We could find that a significant proportion of public sector workers, who are apparently so undervalued, actually turning out to be ‘rich’.
Problem is, as we’ve discussed, those on 100K probably don’t feel rich and are getting mullered for tax as it is. I’d increase IHT and also lower the threshold from which it’s paid. No chance of the tories doing that though, doubt Labour will either.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
Exactly. Removing public services is an objective.
(An objective that hides behind the “there is no money’ narrative)
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
Covid, QE, corrupt bungs to party donors, the Monarchy, Wars, and the £bs funnelled into private pockets for things like HS2 and Freeports prove that government spending is not constrained by tax revenue.
The fact that the whole ‘there is no money’ argument is only ever brought up in relation to spending on public services, and not for any of the above, should be a bit of a giveaway.
Ponty
pfm Member
Govt pay isn’t rubbish. The reason docs etc can retire very early or decide to do a different job, is the fabulous pension. Look at the overall remuneration package, not salary in isolation. Good luck to them, that’s the deal and they’re worth it. But treat with caution claims they’re not well remunerated.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
Yeah, all those nurses complaining about not being able feed and house themselves are just moaners who don't know how to budget. Bastards.
paulfromcamden
Baffled
I think that is the problem and that's the question I have - why don't some people in the top ~4% of earners feel that they're able to cover their outgoings from an income that most people can only dream of?
I don't think it's because they pay too much tax.
Largely agree with you that some people lucky enough to have a DB pension probably underestimate how much cash they would need to buy an equivalent DC pension - though I see that more of a failing of current DC pension arrangements than a problem with DB pensions. Largely agree with you on IHT too.
Ponty
pfm Member
Honestly? I think it’s artificially low ‘emergency” interest rates for too long which have caused the damage, both for individuals and govts. And as usual, it comes back to housing being the issue. Telephone number mortgages able to be serviced at ultra low rates have driven capital values off the chart. I’ve always said it’s far better to have higher rates and lower asset prices than vice versa. It gives people a chance of paying off the capital, whether from a bonus, promotion, inheritance, luck on the horses / shares, whatever, people could make strides into paying off the capital. Nowadays the numbers are so vast when people get a bonus they look at the size of the mortgage and think what’s the point, may as well spend it. Consequently, they‘re never getting ahead, they’re just servicing debt.
Minio
Kind of Sort of Not really...
My friends daughter recently trained as a nurse with the NHS.
She worked in the community for six months.
Put feelers out and got on a private surgical team because she was sick of being poor.
We are all commodities I'm afraid.
paulfromcamden
Baffled
They've overextended themselves and are feeling the pinch now rates have risen? I'm sure that's true in some cases. Though we've been hearing similar stories about people on a good whack 'struggling' for years now. I was working with some of them 20+ years ago so I'm not convinced this is anything new.
on that basis anyone with a pension fund and a modest house in London is therefore rich. What's a 2 bed terrace in London? £700k and up? Many will be over £1M without trying hard. But that doesn't make you rich because you can't realise it unless you sell up and move to Bolton. Or Spain, but you can't very easily do that any more.
Ponty
pfm Member
They might not feel it, but they are rich. If they choose to keep their wealth in a small terrace house in London, that’s their choice. You could say the same about someone slumming it in a small flat in Monaco worth many times more. Being realistic, someone could sell their small terrace in London for £1M and buy the same thing somewhere like Henley for £600K. £400K in the bank, call it 350 after costs, hardly the stuff of non rich people.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
On the macroeconomics of transition and the search for clarity
THE LONG ROAD TO A SOCIAL DIVIDEND PART 2
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
Strikes are a way to point out what the system would look like, and work like, if these people did as you and @Ponty advocate, and leave for better remunerated jobs.